Recession - Page 2

N5139 · 10-07-2008, 02:11 PM

Thanks HS, we're definitely on the same page. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

I understand where you are coming from, but pilots made their own bed from a labor point of view. You can't blame the prototypical civil service vegetable for having a better financial plan than the passionate pilot. Life is about opportunity costs. A lot of these pilots wouldn't get caught dead doing some of the "dead end" civil service jobs that have better benefits and higher balanced spread lifetime earnings than the jobs these pilots agree upon taking on a daily basis in this country. That's just the way it is.

Deadweights are not exclusive to your side of the government. It is a common understanding on my side of the world that 10% of the full timers do 90% of the work and that's some of the perceived negatives of ART jobs; still in my humble estimation, from an opportunity cost point of view, your family is still better off having you as a GS-10 (and I think you know this) coping with your GS-13 deadweight nemesis on a daily basis than flying the line today in the airline sector. I know I find govt work the only venue where I'm competitively compensated for my knowledge and time vested, the private sector is truly a joke these days with the exception of health care and energy.

Led Zep · 10-07-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N5139

Zep,

I agree with you, but I'm trying to focus more on the Government's way of paying people than the poor negotiating executed by pilot "groups," which I consider an oxymoron due to the complete lack of solidarity I witnessed in the 121 world.

I want to qualify this, as I certainly don't mean to paint a broad stroke:

There is no effective means of evaluation within SOME aspects of G employment. Certain series of jobs will allow you to slide on up to a GS-13 without any means of scrutiny, while the guy doing the same job in the private sector is being scrutinized quarterly and knows that if he/she isn't productive, they'll be summarily terminated based on performance. The annual evaluations are a complete joke in the Federal system. How does a DHS TSA Aviation TSI deserve an $80,000+ salary for wandering around a ramp? These positions need to be reviewed and re-classified.

Quote:

I want to qualify this, as I certainly don't mean to paint a broad stroke:

You didn't, and it certainly did not come across to me in that way.

I agree with you that there needs to be some review and reclassification with regards to the employment standards in government. The majority of complaints I hear from those in my family who are government employees is the inability to fire someone who isn't doing their job. To add salt to the wound, many of those people know they cannot be fired and thus continue to do nothing but cause more work for everyone else.

To be fair, I'll submit that we see the same thing in the private sector. There are many examples from all over the industry of people who shouldn't be in the cockpit but are allowed to continue flying, thanks in no small part to labor unions.

SkyHigh · 10-17-2008, 09:35 AM

We usually do not recognize the good times until they are gone. The last three years in aviation were unusual and are unlikely to come back. Pilots who were getting regional jobs with hardly 300 hours will now have to go packing and hit the street in hopes of landing something significantly less.

During the recession of the early 1990's it was common to encounter 3000 hour flight instructors who were campaigning hard to get any job flying anything with two engines. Alaskan Air Taxis wanted 3000 hours and an ATP in order to fly a 207 and Horizon Air was hiring C-5 instructor pilots who were newly separated from the military to co-pilot their San Antonio sewer pipes.

This time we have the age 65 rule to absorb plus a long and deep recession to face. As the airlines begin to seize up the ripple effect will make its way down to the lower rung jobs. The recession I lived through in the early 1990's will seem like a dry spell when compared to the drought that most likely will set in for the next 4 to 7 years.

My aim is not to add to the despair but to serve as a waring to those who are still out to sea. Find a good port no matter how small. Do not hold out for a better job. Throw your original plans and goals out the window. Aviation is a game of musical chairs and the music has stopped. It is time to find the nearest seat. It most likely will be a long and especially hard dry spell.

SkyHigh

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