Not true! At this point, I am pretty tired of hearing this entitlement %$&#!
Anyone who thinks that should either...
1. Not get into it in the first place.
2. If in it and disapprove of it.... GET OUT (not the industry's problem how you do it)!
3. or if already committed/don't wish to leave it... that's your problem, not the industry's.
"...life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness."
Nobody said the pursuit would, in fact, end in happiness BUT... you are free to pursue your own version of it. If one is happier not in professional aviation, AWESOME but don't blame the industry because YOU didn't like it. the industry would not be around if some people didn't indulge in it. That's the beauty of a free market.
The stench of management is overwhelming.
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That's good and fine Fly Boy but that libertarian argument totally ignores the responsibility and accountability of the "seller" and quite conveniently blames the victim. We don't and shouldn't live in a society where rules of the road are ignored or disdained. Eventually, after all of the research has been said and done, most transactions come down to the level of trust.
Caveat Emptor was never meant to justify hustling.
The level of "trust"/accountability of the seller is built into the fact that if a hustler hustles enough people, nobody will buy his crap thus, putting him out of business and the legit businesses out there will gain the hustler's customers. The fiscally conservative / free market argument does not leave that out at all. "Caveat Emptor" does not JUSTIFY hustlers, it warns people about the presence of hustlers. The presence of hustlers does not discredit the entire system, they eventually end up reinforcing good business practices because EVENTUALLY, when the free market (ie, the people doing the buying) has had enough of getting screwed over, they refuse to buy stuff from a business of that nature. No, I do not like getting screwed over either but what right do I have to stop a hustler if they have people who are buying their stuff? If we are to ban hustlers... who is to be the judge of what a "hustler" is? As long as they are not FORCING people to do anything against their will, what right do we have to stop them?
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The industry owes us the truth.
The free market is actively working to cut wages and to put pilots out of a job. In ten years or less we could see the market flooded with hotel room sharing obedient Chinese and Indian pilots who do the job at less then half the cost. The free market will do anything to cut costs. Pilots are very much on the loosing end.
The free market, as stated above, is not some mystical entity driven by some unimaginable force... WE, the consumers, are the free market. With every business-oriented decision we make, we are influencing the market. The "free market" has been working to cut wages and to put pilots out of a job because the PEOPLE who fly on our planes DON'T REALLY CARE about pilot salary. Whenever a news article is ran about how crappy regional pay is, people gasp and scoff at the idea... but when they buy their next plane ticket, what is the ONLY thing on their mind.... PRICE!!! The lowest price wins as long as the market (ie WE, THE PEOPLE) demand the lowest price.
I hope the day never comes, but if the dire situation you describe above (In ten years or less we could see the market flooded with hotel room sharing obedient Chinese and Indian pilots who do the job at less then half the cost) ever comes to be, then that is what "we" have demanded. Now, along the way, I am sure safety will suffer and some free thinking people will figure out that these halfwits are not so good at flying airplanes SAFELY therefore, these people will start to demand something OTHER than the lowest price.
I'm not saying the free market is perfect (by any stretch of the imagination) but there is one thing perfect about it.... it is FREE! Nobody is controlling or coercing you into doing anything you don't want to do and that is more important than having a system that makes you "happy" by FORCING you to do what SOMEONE ELSE thinks will make you happy. Although not everyone will be happy in a free society, everyone has an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to be happy.
Last edited by Fly Boy Knight; 06-24-2012 at 07:58 AM.
Reason: I can't spell
"The fiscally conservative / free market argument does not leave that out at all. "Caveat Emptor" does not JUSTIFY hustlers, it warns people about the presence of hustlers."
But, if your first and last response to an injustice is "caveat emptor", then you're simply rationalizing it. How is that dealing with it? No rational adult is unaware that snake oil salesmen exist, but if they were so obvious their "industry" would just die out. They need to rely on our society having some rules which will discourage this behavior and, if attempted, it will be punished.
Has that been your experience?
Caveat Emptor has been used quite a bit the last 10 years or so to shift blame, responsibility and accountability from where it belongs. I wonder why...
That's my opinion. I'm sure you disagree.
"The free market, as stated above, is not some mystical entity driven by some unimaginable force... WE, the consumers, are the free market. With every business-oriented decision we make, we are influencing the market. The "free market" has been working to cut wages and to put pilots out of a job because the PEOPLE who fly on our planes DON'T REALLY CARE about pilot salary."
Is it? You really believe that this so-called "free market" is really driven by "us"?
Tell me, following the Buffalo crash, with all of the justified outrage over training, salary and work conditions, what has become of it?
What was the final result handed down to us from the FAA following a few "productive meetings" with airline management followed by some "impressive" hearings?
Corporations (along with their influenced gov't agencies) rely on the public to eventually forget. There's too much money involved. The smoke eventually clears, the sensational headlines die out, the "hearings" are over and we're back to just about where we were before (with some cosmetic touch-ups).
What, of any significance, changed for the better following Buffalo?
Yes, a consumer does look for a good price. I do, you do, he does. However, it goes back to my point that it always come down to a certain level of trust, after any and all of the research is done. I'm not a financier (so I need to rely on the SEC doing its job). I'm not an A&P (so I need to rely on the airline and the FAA to do their jobs). My understanding of various industries can take me only so far. Trust in corporations not putting safety second, gov't agencies performing the required oversight and the travel site not stealing my credit card info. is implied with every transaction. No sane person would choose a particular airline/airfare if there was a note in parantheses suggesting that the maintenance is outsourced, the crews are fatigued and inexperienced and this airline has shady accounting practices.
Is that what they're exposed to?
In order for the free market to work everyone needs access to fair and balanced information.
That's true. Fair and balanced information is freely available, but one must recognize and weed out the unfair, unbalanced information. Any source which has a financial interest in your decision, reports things they "heard", appears to be bragging, appears to hold a grudge, or is in any way connected to Hollywood should be treated with caution.
Not everyone is willing to throw away everything for this career.
You know you loose the argument with quotes like this! My career has been very rewarding. You know your choices are what made your career path go where it did, so look to yourself for some of the problems. I actually turned down your Dream Job with Alaska Airlines because I knew my family would not be happy moving to the other side of the country. I also did not want to commute as my daughter was just born. Some of my fellow pilot friends thought I was crazy but choosing FedEx has been good for me. In your case apparently you only thought of yourself to the detriment of your family. "According to your posts"
I agree this career is tough to get into and even tougher if things do not go as planned but so are other careers. Everyone needs to have other options in any career path and resist the urge to put all their eggs in one basket.
Plenty of people spend big dollars for some liberal arts degree from a expensive college only to later ?? realize they cannot get a job in that discipline or earn enough to support themselves.