Jetsnake

Fairly simple; but complicated question.

As they say in Europe, whilst conducting either a VOR or ILS
procedure turn in the europe theatre. How long should you
proceed outbound on the the procedure turn before you turn
inbound ?

If anyone knows a reference in which we can obtain a written
regulations that would be nice. We have been searching all night
on the internet with no avail.

Thanx,

Jetsnake

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SamFoxpilot

Jet,
I used to fly GIVs in Germany. I can't reference PANS-OPS, but Chapter 18 of AFI 11-217, Vol 1, does give some excellent guidance on ICAO and PANS-OPS/SARPS, and how procedures differ from FAA procedures.

Technically, there are no procedure turns in ICAO--just reversal maneuvers. They are designed to be flown exactly as depicted (like procedure tracks). Reversals may be defined by crossing radial, DME, or timing to remain w/in a certain distance. So the short answer of when to turn inbound is "it depends".

REAL Pilot

Pretty sure its 1+15 ICAO. On NVGs its hard to tell-ha. Don't fly full procedures but the more important is to be set up within the "remain within x miles" distance.

A320fumes

The Bible on such stuff is the FAA Order 7110.65. Most time the airlines and all the time the military screws it up. Go to the fedworld faa site and download it

Riddler

So FAA is now the source document for ICAO/Pans Ops procedures? Um.... I think not.

P.S. I'm a military guy who has flown a ton of international stuff, so maybe you shouldn't ask me cause apparently "all the time" I screwed it up.

Onfinal

Pan-Ops procedures are available thru ICAO. ICAO publishes a number of documents on procedures. Similar to FAA with their Advisory Circulars, Orders, and Publications.

I don't recall the Pub on or flight procedures but the information is available at www.icao.org for purchase. Unforturnately for this very reason you will have a very difficult time finding the info free on the web. It appears, to me, that ICAO has been very successful in preventing these documents from proliferating the internet.

The next time you have a long overnight in CYUL stop by and pick up their pubs at the headquarters.

Onfinal

FliFast

I'll put down my drink and throw my two cents in.....

Since "procedure turn" was mentioned, as opposed to Base turns or racetrack procedures, you are given two choices:

1. 45/180 procedure turn. Fly outbound from the FAF for 1 to 3 minutes, THENCE, turn 45 degrees to the procedure turn side. Timing is used to determine the duration of the 45 degree segment. Cat A/B: 1 minute & Cat C/D/E: 1 min 15 seconds.

I presume the GIV is a Cat C aircraft.

2. 80/260 procedure turn only notates 1 to 3 minutes outbound from the FAF before making a turn. The 80/260 procedure is a constantly turning procedure which doesn't use timing, only compass headings.

Flight Procedures DOC 8168 PART III Approach Procedures PANC Ops

Semper Fi, Jetsnake.

And now back to your regularly scheduled program.... Drinks -R- Us