Productivity is the key, and obviously AA's pilots are not productive. In a competitive sense, more efficient and productive pilots are necessary.
With 2900 pilots on furlough, it's not like its going to make a difference. Out of all the legacy carriers, AA and USAirways are the only ones who have'nt recalled.
Productivity is the key, and obviously AA's pilots are not productive. In a competitive sense, more efficient and productive pilots are necessary.
With 2900 pilots on furlough, it's not like its going to make a difference. Out of all the legacy carriers, AA and USAirways are the only ones who have'nt recalled.
How do you measure, and by what "metric" are we (the pilot group) "inefficient", vs the inefficiencies built into the AA way of doing business that I cannot fix?
I'm really interested in this as I'm looking at bumping up on the 1000 hour FAR limit. Please share your insight on this with us....don't just regurgitate the management mantra that's being pumped out. I fly to the FAR limit-as an Int'l 777 pilot and get hammered for being low on "stick time" while we (AA) still do stupid stuff costing us big $$$ like fee for departure at Eagle or put our name on basketball stadiums or pay for grossly expensive new terminals at dfw,mia and jfk...but yet the airline ain't makin money because of pilot expenses...righhhhtttt! give me a friggin break...
ps-one reason we have so many on furlough is because the idiots running the company bought another (money-losing) company right before the entire industry split-sed ....and the purchased company wasn't what I would call "profit accretive". That resulted in massive layoffs/downsizing....Comprende?
I read that story in the DMN last week & wondered if the 60 SWA hrs vv 40 AA hrs had included EVERY AA pilot vv selectively the narrow-body domestic types. B/C if it included EVERYONE, those Fat-Jet Reserve FBs who only fly one trip/month (& that's a good thing, it means everyone is healthy!) ... it cuts the average of the entire group to nothing.
I am surprised to hear a fat-jet international guy is bumping 1000/year. I thought most of you guys had trouble doing that w/ 30/7 issues & the cadence of those 6-day trips. Most of the big-jet lines are 70 hours, right?
Anyhow. The "productivity" town crier is a ruse.
The article says airline management defines this as "stick time," but they don't, really. They define it as TIME AVAILABLE for stick time.
I wouldn't have much problem with a 90 hr max if the minimum day was 8 hours & there was a real pay guarantee system (@ AA, anyhow). That'd put the efficiency monkey where it belongs --- the company's manning/scheduling.
We've all got to get our collective white collars in the dirt ... realize that while our uniforms DO have white collars, when it comes to pay/benefits & the negotiation thereof ... we're no different than those guys who wear the flashlites on their hardhats.
I'm really interested in this as I'm looking at bumping up on the 1000 hour FAR limit. Please share your insight on this with us....don't just regurgitate the management mantra that's being pumped out. I fly to the FAR limit-as an Int'l 777 pilot and get hammered for being low on "stick time" while we (AA) still do stupid stuff costing us big $$$ like fee for departure at Eagle
I am surprised to hear a fat-jet international guy is bumping 1000/year. I thought most of you guys had trouble doing that w/ 30/7 issues & the cadence of those 6-day trips. Most of the big-jet lines are 70 hours, right?
Al
Hi Al;
The deal is fly-thru time. I bid lines with fly-thru, which goes into the CPA bank. My bank is already maxed out at 50 hours. The fly thru fills up the PPROJ, then any leftovers go into the bank. Any bank time over 50 is cashed out and paid.
This month I carried a Europe trip into November, which gave me 12+ hours over 78, which went FTCPA, then CPA. Then we overflew during the month up to 81+. Net result is around 93 hours this month. I carry a Pacific trip into January, same drill. The numbers get even bigger for the guys taking a 6 day trip from one month to the next. Of course, the bidding headaches get bigger also.
BTW, there is no 30 in 7 in Int'l. There IS a 32 in 7 for 2 man ops (757-737 to South America/Carib., for example).
The LIMFAC for the Europe/Pacific trips is required time off between trips, which if memory serves is something like twice the flight time.
Something like $90 million of the approx. $150 million loss for Q3 at AMR was due to costs incurred by regional affiliates...while AMR wants me to concentrate on their alleged "cost" problem with pilots. But you comment that AMR's RJ ops are the "least of my worries?" (Also this year AE's president commented that EA was losing something on the order of approx. $1 million/day...in line with Q3's numbers.)
Here's a novel concept for airline management: If it don't make money, quit doin' it. If it makes money, do more of it. FYI, RJ operations today are "the" definition of a money-losing operation, no matter how many corporate shills want to try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and deflect attention from poor management decisions.
MBA not required to figure it out, either. Just an ability to read and perform simple math.
How do you measure, and by what "metric" are we (the pilot group) "inefficient", vs the inefficiencies built into the AA way of doing business that I cannot fix?
Please share your insight on this with us....don't just regurgitate the management mantra that's being pumped out.
ps-one reason we have so many on furlough is because the idiots running the company bought another (money-losing) company right before the entire industry split-sed ....and the purchased company wasn't what I would call "profit accretive". That resulted in massive layoffs/downsizing..
I'll try not to sound like management when I say that AA will have to utilize their resources more efficiently, and raise the productivity levels of their pilots (and other employees). If they don't , they cannot compete or be profitable.
For instance, why does AA have separate 757/767 flying, and domestic/intl? Why not, as other carriers have done, allow ANY 757/767-qualified pilot to fly EITHER airplane or EITHER routes? That would be more productive AND more efficient. What about Pref Bidding? That will most certainly help, too. And many of those ridiculous APA work rules you have are killing the company. Your contract is well known as one of the least efficient around.
It is'nt your fault AA is naming arenas or building new terminals, but is'nt this a good thing? Marketing your product and upgrading old facilities? I'd say Arpey has the right idea here.
And previous management's purchase of TWA is also well known; just as your horrible treatment of TWA's employees is. But hey---AMR got a $2 billion dollar company for only $750 million. What a deal! I see you still have all of TWA's valuable assets, but almost NONE of it's 22,000 employees.
Maybe that's why your airline is losing money? They got rid of the most experienced people who really knew how to save money and operate efficiently!
I'll try not to sound like management when I say that AA will have to utilize their resources more efficiently, and raise the productivity levels of their pilots (and other employees). If they don't , they cannot compete or be profitable.
OK, I'll type this slow, as maybe I'm not coming across clearly enough...ref my previous post..in Q3, with oil touching $70/bbl, AMR lost a grand total of (ta-da!) $150 million, with $90 million of that attributable to clinging onto a business model that looks more outmoded each day (RJ's). So if we then say that the mainline lost $60 million or so...In a company running $4 Billion or more a quarter thru the cash register, THAT AMOUNTS TO LITTLE MORE THAN ROUNDING ERROR!! Now that oil's price is moderating, it appears AMR is poised to deliver a nicely profitable 2006...and would be even moreso if they quit pouring cash into the RJ blackhole.
For instance, why does AA have separate 757/767 flying, and domestic/intl? Why not, as other carriers have done, allow ANY 757/767-qualified pilot to fly EITHER airplane or EITHER routes? That would be more productive AND more efficient.
Where do you get this? I flew the 75/76 for 6 years...Both airplanes...I flew primarily Int'l but could volunteer by going into makeup and fly domestic AFTER the domestic guys had their shot at the flying. Also, Int'l reserves can be assigned to fly a domestic trip, after all domestic reserves have been used. This month, FYI, I have a DFW-MIA-DFW "domestic" 2 day as part of my regular, normal, 777-I bid trip...Now if the company "needs" another part of my contract to combine DOM/INT divisions for "efficiency", I'll consider "selling" it to them...but this "gifting" strategy to management that I guess was considered negotiating at your STL based ex-employer is not something that interests a growing portion of us here.
What about Pref Bidding? That will most certainly help, too. And many of those ridiculous APA work rules you have are killing the company. Your contract is well known as one of the least efficient around.
Pref Bidding in the hands of AMR would be a complete disaster. Do a web search for the UAL MEC's chairman's remarks on their happiness with the implementation of PBS there...It would be the same way here, in AMR's hands. Also, PBS plain and simple will result in even more furloughs...something I thought you were against? Same way with ANY productivity "give". I am not opposed to making the company more productive, but not in exchange less control over my life, turning the savings into a fare sale, or wholesale layoffs. In other words, MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTABILITY!
It is'nt your fault AA is naming arenas or building new terminals, but is'nt this a good thing? Marketing your product and upgrading old facilities? I'd say Arpey has the right idea here.
Sure it's a good thing...if you got the money for it. But tell me, is it a good thing when selling your house to run up a bunch of debt so you can fill the house with fine furniture so it will sell quicker? Here's a concept you AND management needs to get your mind around: Concentrate on running a quality, safe airline in which the customer is satisfied and the employees are happy-don't depend on the "gimmick-du-jour" to bring customers in the door. Listening to you, you'd think that SW operating without a stadium named after it or out of tired old Love Field would be doomed!
And previous management's purchase of TWA is also well known; just as your horrible treatment of TWA's employees is. But hey---AMR got a $2 billion dollar company for only $750 million. What a deal! I see you still have all of TWA's valuable assets, but almost NONE of it's 22,000 employees.
We also have all the debt that came with the company, and all the retiree pension and health care obligations...that totaled a sum well over $2 Billion. In another thread (to which you did not respond) I remarked to you that AA is now the same size as we were before the TWA transaction...with 5% of our list consisting of ex-TWA pilots. That 5% is approximately 20% of TWA's list. Most of those guys still here are flying protected CA seats in STL..or what's left of STL. That was all that could be saved and seems fair enough in light of what history has wrought.You didn't make the cut and aren't happy. Got it. I'm not happy with the way it worked out either, but that's water under the bridge now. Maybe it's time you moved on too.. Or keep stoking that anger into an early medical retirement, your choice.
Maybe that's why your airline is losing money? They got rid of the most experienced people who really knew how to save money and operate efficiently!
Something like $90 million of the approx. $150 million loss for Q3 at AMR was due to costs incurred by regional affiliates...while AMR wants me to concentrate on their alleged "cost" problem with pilots. But you comment that AMR's RJ ops are the "least of my worries?" (Also this year AE's president commented that EA was losing something on the order of approx. $1 million/day...in line with Q3's numbers.)
Here's a novel concept for airline management: If it don't make money, quit doin' it. If it makes money, do more of it. FYI, RJ operations today are "the" definition of a money-losing operation, no matter how many corporate shills want to try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and deflect attention from poor management decisions.
MBA not required to figure it out, either. Just an ability to read and perform simple math.
You are right on the $$$$$$$$$
Just look at the cost/seat mile! It is just a tool by Mismanagement to smack down the pay!
Similar Threads
American, APA positioning
Linear Mode
