I don't think ALPA lawyers are the problem, really. They just do the best with what they're given. Would higher-priced lawyers help? Maybe, but probably not.
Some of the scope sections for majors are quite honestly out of control. The inherent nature of scope means that some flying is included, and some is excluded. The more crap you throw on there, the more convoluted and error-prone it gets. Combine that with the fact that no contract (in any industry, not just labor contracts) is air-tight and you can see how any lawyer paid to do this sort of thing will be able to drive a Mack truck through the language.
I think the bigger problem is the inability of pilot groups to look into the future and predict trends. Was it really that much of a stretch to predict that Delta would try to replace narrowbody aircraft with the CRJ when it was introduced with Comair in the early 90s? Whether the pilot group or the MEC realized this or not is the issue, but unfortunately we're all stuck with the consequences.
The only airtight scope is, "All flying for XYZ Airlines must be done by XYZ pilots." But it's a little too late for that one.
With the sad state of affairs in todays litigious society, company attorneys would still find a way to drive the preverbal "Mack Truck" through the above statement.
The only airtight scope is, "All flying for XYZ Airlines must be done by XYZ pilots." But it's a little too late for that one.
This is exactly what SWApA has been saying all along. The "camels nose is under the tent". Nothing could be further from the truth! There is a minority of pilots at SWA that understand the dangers of codeshare. Since SWApA is not going to be doing any education to the membership about how codeshare is going to kill this airline, this small portion of the pilot-group is actively trying to get the message out there. We have ordered thousands of "No Codeshare" stickers and are trying to educate every fellow pilot we see about this cancer.
We still have to vote on this T/A and a NO vote would send a strong message to SWA that we want only SOUTHWEST pilots to fly SOUTHWEST passengers. We are going to be voting on raises with retro, 401k matching increases and better work rules. All that in the worst economic environment since the 1930s. Why do you think that SWA is going to give us all these improvements? Because they are sneaking codesharing in there! This pilot group is going to get blinded by raises and retro just like the UAL guys in 2000 ... all while scope gets obliterated.
It's NOT too late, but time is running out.
PS: For you poolies out there. Talk to your buds at SWA and ask them how they feel about codeshare. If they are clueless about it or think it's a good deal, tell them you'll just be applying at WestJet or Volaris then.
PS: For you poolies out there. Talk to your buds at SWA and ask them how they feel about codeshare. If they are clueless about it or think it's a good deal, tell them you'll just be applying at WestJet or Volaris then.
I'm in the pool and I've asked every single one of the Capts/FO's I know. Most of them have said that given today's economic environment, it's probably not the time to turn down an increased revenue stream with little risk to the company. Of the dozen guys I know, every one has said they are going to keep an open mind, read the language carefully and make an unemotional decision.
Personally, I'd rather wait for class instead of SWA over-expanding in a crappy economy, end up bleeding cash and wind up furloughed.
Most of them have said that given today's economic environment, it's probably not the time to turn down an increased revenue stream with little risk to the company.
And this is the reason why soooo many pilots will just vote for this codesharing. It's like ****ing against the wind with this pilot group. Yes, it can be a good thing for the company.... increase your revenue without too much risk. But what codesharing does to the pilot group is horrific. Gary Kelly would love to grow Southwest Airlines without having to grow the seniority lists of those pesky high-paid pilots and flight attendants. Do you not see that?
Position: Still just floating along. Good thing we added that "lazy river" to the pool recently.
Posts: 160
Slow Down Everyone
OK, I know I'm just in the pool and therefore don't see all the info that may be out there, but if you all will allow me a quick observation:
HAS ANYONE ACTUALLY SEEN THE WORDING IN THE CONTRACT TO ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT WORDING IS USED AND HOW MUCH THE RAISE ACTUALLY IS????????????
If not I suggest to you that people are getting both worked up and overjoyed (depending on what your priorities are) about this TA without knowing the facts.
Can we please stay united as a group and wait and see what is ACTUALLY in the TA before we start cheering or burning people in effigy.
Splitting ourselves into groups now only hurts us down the road. Lets wait and see what is ACTUALLY in the TA to start drawing lines in the sand.
Once the facts are out we can figure out if the priorities have been addressed and if there are issues that are unworkable. Bottom line folks, you have to learn the art of compromise, neither side in negotiations gets everything it wants, that’s why it’s called negotiations.
Once the facts are out we can figure out if the priorities have been addressed and if there are issues that are unworkable. Bottom line folks, you have to learn the art of compromise, neither side in negotiations gets everything it wants, that’s why it’s called negotiations.
The best analogy for me, is that Code Share is like Crack for airlines. You can't compromise with Crack. Sure it makes you feel good, bring in some extra revenue but to get that same fix the next time you need a little more and more often. It is an addiction that eats a corporations from the insides out. It's a subtle cancer that destroys!
That is reason, you can't be patient and wait for a TA to get the word out. Just like you don't wait till your high school son or daughter is on the way out the door to a party to talk about the dangers of drugs. Perhaps, we have waited too long and it's already too late for code share... But, I hope not.
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