Notices

Spirit of NKS

Old 03-13-2013, 01:09 PM
  #5451  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Default

Originally Posted by Normann View Post
As usual. The seniority range we know the least is our own seniority. You are probably in the left seat.

It is ok to be in opposition as long you have a plan, and are able to explain me how we will get from A to B as a group. So far I have yet to meet anyone who was able to do that. I was critical about the contract as well. It takes time to get the full story. It takes time to end up paired together with the players who were involved and get their personal vintage point and reasoning and make your own judgement about their character. As far as honesty. Yeah, honesty is clearly not a problem of the MEC but the problem of the opposition. Just remember the mud throwing that went on and is still going on.
Let me suggest that you haven't met anyone with a plan - that you agree with.

I am opposition. I consider myself loyal opposition, but I am opposition. I disagree with the manner in which we attempt to do the pilots business.

Please show us some data to back up your claim that the opposition is "dishonest".
skybolt is offline  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:14 PM
  #5452  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Default

Originally Posted by skybolt View Post
Let me suggest that you haven't met anyone with a plan - that you agree with.

I am opposition. I consider myself loyal opposition, but I am opposition. I disagree with the manner in which we attempt to do the pilots business.

Please show us some data to back up your claim that the opposition is "dishonest".
Go back to your *****board and read any random thread and you will find your data. There are your buddies. Who are you kidding here? Data? What do you think I have like tapes and 8 mm movies?
Normann is offline  
Old 03-13-2013, 06:48 PM
  #5453  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Default

Originally Posted by Normann View Post
Go back to your *****board and read any random thread and you will find your data. There are your buddies. Who are you kidding here? Data? What do you think I have like tapes and 8 mm movies?

You made the accusation that opposition is dishonest, and you made it on this public board. Give us examples.
skybolt is offline  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:06 AM
  #5454  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Airbus Left
Posts: 130
Default

Originally Posted by skybolt View Post
You made the accusation that opposition is dishonest, and you made it on this public board. Give us examples.
C'mon, Skybolt. You got to admit that Normann is pretty spot on with that observation. It is, in fact, not an accusation, it is an observation.
Balder is offline  
Old 03-14-2013, 04:42 AM
  #5455  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Default

Originally Posted by Balder View Post
C'mon, Skybolt. You got to admit that Normann is pretty spot on with that observation. It is, in fact, not an accusation, it is an observation.
It is not my responsibility to prove your point. However, i'll drop the discussion. This public forum isnt the place to discuss specifics.
skybolt is offline  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:00 AM
  #5456  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Airbus Left
Posts: 130
Default

You are right about that, Skybolt. And even though you declared yourself in opposition, I do not think Normann was referring to you directly.
We all have our opinions, and I respect yours, and I appreciate all the work you did on our behalf in the past.
As you well know, the most important aspect of us being a unionized pilot group is that we remain united. It is my opinion that anything that undermines our fellow pilots, like flying OT during furloughs, or some of the "less than factual" anti-union stuff uttered on the Spiritboard, does not help our cause.

Ultimately, we all want the same thing, that being the ability to protect ourselves againts the whims of our management.
Balder is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 08:20 AM
  #5457  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Default

Originally Posted by skybolt View Post
You made the accusation that opposition is dishonest, and you made it on this public board. Give us examples.
- The union is trying to reduce your pay.
- Union members are taking illegal drops.
- The contract is cost neutral.
- We had a TA that was ready to be signed.
- The union was operating on the promise that we were not going to strike. (That one was actually posted by you back in 09 when you were advocating against the strike vote!)
- And the typical generic stuff like: The union sold us out. They are commies, XY dude is gay, etc... the mud throwing that I will not go into because if you have flown as much as a single trip here, you already heard it all.

That just on top of my head. I am sure I will get more if I think more about it.

edit: We were going to get more planes but the union did not want to negotiate for them.

Last edited by Normann; 03-15-2013 at 08:21 AM. Reason: edit: oohhh and great one!
Normann is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 08:56 AM
  #5458  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Default

You know what Skybolt? I really do not understand what you are doing among that crowd that showed complete disrespect for our union, for every one of us, over and over again.

You and me, we differ in our political views and we differ on how business should be conducted. That is fine. Nobody has a beef with that. But several of the peeps that were behind that infamous recall attempt were guys and girls that had a few things in common. They did at least one out of the following three things:

1. They worked their asses off when 125 of us were jobless. I am talking about 200h credits and higher. Every month. This opportunity was only ever possible because of an excessive furlough. I am not talking about guys picking up one or two trip. These guys thought that this will be the norm for the rest of their careers. Is that just me or is that insane or what? I like credit myself and I pick stuff up all the time. But we know that something like this is just not realistic forever. There will be an end to it. Nope... not them.

2. They flew all the way to the very last minute right before the strike. One of them even got up on the meeting and asked if they think their OT will be paid or not. That was lovely! These dudes sent the worst signal to the company ever. When you show no unity during hard times, than how can you expect the company to take you seriously? It was thanks to these guys that the company believed that they had a chance to fly through the strike! These guys/girls jeopardized all of our jobs and lives.

3. They did not walk with us!
I can think of at least one who did. But most did not. Almost none of them that I have on my mind walked with me. And I was there almost every day until I had no skin left on my nose.

These folks think it is OK to get preferential treatment and have 20 JRMs while most of us can only have 3-4, 5 if we are lucky. They are all about themselves, nothing else matters to them. Anyone who is not playing along gets a label. Just look at Travis. He ran, tried to do his best to change things, perhaps he realized what is realistic to do and what management was really about. He too got labeled. It does not matter. If you can't bring back the gravy train, you are their enemy.

How do you not see this?
Normann is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:40 PM
  #5459  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Default

You know what Norman, I think you're a pilot that legitimately sides with your union leaders because you believe that they stand in the breach for you. I understand, when you work for an employer like Spirit, taking your elected leaders side against the company is the default position. I understand and respect that.

I can't see what you think, and I'm not a mind reader. But it's obvious that you haven't ever had a personal conversation with me. Call me if you like. Until then, I don't have the time to dignify your assertions on this public board.

I do have time for one topic: My opposition to the strike vote and my position that the union was operating on the promise that we would not strike.

I opposed the strike vote because we were making a bluff. We had no strike center, no strike awareness committee, no family awareness committee, no SPC, etc. Our strike vote was obviously a bluff. For that reason, I opposed taking a strike vote. I called my rep and was assured that we would NOT use the strike authorization vote to actually strike. You may, and I'm sure you will, have your own opinion of that statement. I will swear that I heard exactly that. Again, we were bluffing and they called our bluff, to the tune of another year.

Call me if you feel like.
skybolt is offline  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:43 PM
  #5460  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Default

Originally Posted by skybolt View Post
You know what Norman, I think you're a pilot that legitimately sides with your union leaders because you believe that they stand in the breach for you. I understand, when you work for an employer like Spirit, taking your elected leaders side against the company is the default position. I understand and respect that.

I can't see what you think, and I'm not a mind reader. But it's obvious that you haven't ever had a personal conversation with me. Call me if you like. Until then, I don't have the time to dignify your assertions on this public board.

I do have time for one topic: My opposition to the strike vote and my position that the union was operating on the promise that we would not strike.

I opposed the strike vote because we were making a bluff. We had no strike center, no strike awareness committee, no family awareness committee, no SPC, etc. Our strike vote was obviously a bluff. For that reason, I opposed taking a strike vote. I called my rep and was assured that we would NOT use the strike authorization vote to actually strike. You may, and I'm sure you will, have your own opinion of that statement. I will swear that I heard exactly that. Again, we were bluffing and they called our bluff, to the tune of another year.

Call me if you feel like.
This was not even aimed at you because you are not a mud thrower. So why reply? If you don't want to use this forum that is fine. But the other board is simply not a level playing field since certain union members are banned. That is a fact too. I should actually add that to my list:

- What shall we think about a group of people that silences the opposition by banning them from their website?

Is that honest behavior?
Normann is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cs757200
Major
11
08-27-2011 11:55 AM
Splanky
Major
7
05-16-2009 06:13 PM
shiftwork
Major
440
03-18-2009 05:05 PM
DWN3GRN
Major
16
09-02-2008 04:11 PM
A320Flyer
Major
5
09-02-2008 04:05 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices