Slowplay, how would anyone have a strategic view of this potential transaction without studying the details and seeing the language.
In fact, where are the details and language in the AF/KLM JV?
Where is there any effective communication from DALPA much less specific information on the JV's?
So now you are going to paint a majority of the "other candidates" with the "defeatist, protectionist" brush. Did it ever occur to you that there is a reason these "other candidates" are running and their agendas have gained serious momentum within the pilot group. Did it not occur to you that people like yourself are contributing to and fueling this backlash against the MEC chair and his administration?
It is time the association starts communicating, putting the facts out, and letting the pilots decide and vote on these issues that are paramount to our jobs.
-T
One of the biggest things I hear. Communicate the good, bad and the ugly with the rank and file.
There is potential good here for us the DAL pilots, but we just cannot sit there and not take some a hard look at it. We need the pilot group to error check the JV.
It will flow more passengers in to our network, but the fact is that we could have already done this in NRT. I agree, I want details.
All good points, and the best way is inclusive scope. Define what a Delta pilot will fly, not what they will not, add a qualifier or two for every thing we just cannot foresee.
ACL, that's exactly what I'm talking about:
Simple example, lets say we peg delta pilot flying at 80%
That means:
80% of all ASM must be by Delta pilots
80% of all flights must be by operated by Delta pilots
80% of all Aircraft must be operated by Delta pilots
80% of all available seats must be in aircraft operated by Delta pilots
80% of all destinations must be served by aircraft operated by Delta pilots
conversely
JV operations cant exceed 20% of the Delta flights, aircraft or ASM
Codeshare operations can't exceed 20% of the Delta flights, aircraft or ASM
DCI flying can't exceed 20% of the Delta flights, aircraft or ASM
again the numbers are an example for the concept on how to define the term "flying"
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg : 09-11-2009 at 10:12 AM.
Reason: bold italics for emphasis, maybe I should preview my posts?
Simple example, lets say we peg delta pilot flying at 80%
That means:
80% of all ASM must be by Delta pilots
80% of all flights must be by operated by Delta pilots
80% of all Aircraft must be operated by Delta pilots
80% of all available seats must be in aircraft operated by Delta pilots
80% of all destinations must be served by aircraft operated by Delta pilots
conversely
JV operations cant exceed 20% of the Delta flights, aircraft or ASM
Codeshare operations can't exceed 20% of the Delta flights, aircraft or ASM
DCI flying can't exceed 20% of the Delta flights, aircraft or ASM
again the numbers are an example for the concept on how to define the term "flying"
Cheers
George
Great ideas, and ones that need to be looked at.
Of note DCI is about 54-62% of our flying depending on how you are looking at it.
ON A side note you are one of the few people I know that actually gives your reasons for editing
ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. is considering making a cash infusion of a couple hundred million dollars to aid struggling Japan Airlines Corp., a person briefed on the talks said Friday.
In exchange for the infusion, the person said the world's biggest airline operator could get a stake in Japan Airlines, an expanded presence in Japan and coveted access to the closest airport to the Tokyo business center.
The talks between the two carriers were in their preliminary stage, and it was unclear what form a partnership between Delta and Japan Airlines might take, said the person, who asked not to be identified by name because of the sensitivity of the discussions.
"There's definite interest on both sides," the person said.
Delta subsidiary Northwest Airlines has a history with Japan Airlines, having handled flight operations for the Japanese carrier in the early 1950s, according to JAL's Web site.
A Delta spokesman declined to comment. JAL spokesman Satoru Tanaka said the airline was considering various tie-ups with a wide variety of potential partners but nothing had been decided.
Japan Airlines already has a codeshare agreement with American Airlines as part of its participation in the oneworld alliance. Delta's SkyTeam alliance currently doesn't have a Japanese partner. An American spokesman declined to speculate on how a Delta-Japan Airlines deal might impact American's relationship with Japan Airlines.
"We would not routinely comment on the media rumors and speculation involving one of our oneworld partners," American spokesman Tim Smith said. "We obviously would note that JAL has been a very good partner for both American and oneworld."
Among U.S. carriers, Atlanta-based Delta has a relatively large Japan presence by virtue of its acquisition last year of Northwest, but its market share there is still dwarfed by that of Japanese carriers. In the Tokyo market, Delta operates from Narita Airport, the main international airport.
Delta has not been allowed to serve Haneda Airport, a mostly domestic airport that is much closer to the center of Tokyo. The U.S. and Japanese governments have been in talks about air service between the countries, though it is unclear how those talks will turn out.
A key benefit for Japan Airlines, Asia's biggest airline group, to a deal with Delta would be money.
Hit by plummeting demand in a slumping global economy and swine flu fears, JAL incurred its biggest-ever quarterly net loss of 99 billion yen ($1 billion) in the three months to June.
The airline has forecast a net loss of 63 billion yen for the current fiscal year to March 2010. As part of restructuring, JAL plans to cut the number of flights and slash costs by 53 billion yen during the current fiscal year and another 100 billion yen in the next fiscal year.
Another motivation for Japan Airlines in talking to Delta about a tie-up could be Northwest's long history of airline operations in Japan. That experience could benefit JAL, said aviation consultant Mark Kiefer of CRA International in Boston.
"I think certainly in terms of the position they are in financially, it's in their interest to entertain really any kind of offers that might come their way," Kiefer said of Japan Airlines. "Whether or not they are also in talks with American, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were."
American's Smith declined to say whether his airline also was talking to Japan Airlines about making a cash infusion in the carrier.
Kiefer said a hookup with Japan Airlines could be good for Delta.
"In general, you would expect these kinds of investments or arrangements to have some potential upside in being able to generate additional traffic and revenue for both airlines, but Delta in particular," Kiefer said.
Delta has cash to invest, though most major U.S. carriers have been trying to preserve their cash because of big revenue declines due to a steep dropoff in demand for air travel amid the global economic downturn.
As of June 30, Delta had $5.4 billion in unrestricted liquidity, including $4.9 billion in cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments and $500 million available under a line of credit. Delta said previously it expects the total figure to fall to $5 billion by the end of the third quarter, which ends Sept. 30.
Delta shares rose 5 cents to $8.15 in afternoon trading Friday.
I hope you are right. This really worries me. NRT is losing huge amounts of money at the moment. Yields are down 40 percent in the far east in many markets vice 20 persent in the rest of the world. I hope Delta does not forge a link with JAL and use the link to shut down the NRT hub. They had no problem dumping the FRA hub with its 5th freedom rights after we linked up with AirFrance.
Yields are down, correct, but that is a snapshot of the current situation. Two years ago international was "where its at." We should be in business for the long-haul and I think thats what you saying - at least I hope it is.
I don't know if a large International Airline can be nimble enough to "chase the yields," market dynamics appear to change to quickly. If we are truly going to be the premier global airline we need a strategy to enable us to pull through the down markets without totally pulling out and retreating to Atlanta.
Yields are down, correct, but that is a snapshot of the current situation. Two years ago international was "where its at." We should be in business for the long-haul and I think thats what you saying - at least I hope it is.
I don't know if a large International Airline can be nimble enough to "chase the yields," market dynamics appear to change to quickly. If we are truly going to be the premier global airline we need a strategy to enable us to pull through the down markets without totally pulling out and retreating to Atlanta.
Scoop
I agree 100% that is why this is great for the corporate entity. Lets hope it is good for us too!
In fact, where are the details and language in the AF/KLM JV?
Where is there any effective communication from DALPA much less specific information on the JV's?
The details are listed in Negotiator's Notepad 09-03 and LOA #16, both in the library on the pilot only portion of the Delta MEC website.
Effective communication is a 2 way street. Those documents have been available since July containing both the details and language of the AF/KLM JV. The Notepad was also distributed to all pilot mailboxes.
Simple example, lets say we peg delta pilot flying at 80%
That means:
80% of all ASM must be by Delta pilots
80% of all flights must be by operated by Delta pilots
80% of all Aircraft must be operated by Delta pilots
80% of all available seats must be in aircraft operated by Delta pilots
80% of all destinations must be served by aircraft operated by Delta pilots
Just curious, but what exactly would these percentages pertain to?
Are we talking about 80% of the physical aircraft, flights/trips, or passenger miles/distance flown?
Reason I ask is because I think depending on how the flying is "defined", in terms of percentages, it will make a big difference in what we actually fly.
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