Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Sailingfun,

That is what I thought also. It reads to me like an average (which would rely on cumulative data). But, I am told it is a snapshot.

Frankly, the language (which confused every Rep) needs improvement. I like George's idea about a double penalty. Even if we do sell scope, such a provision increases it's value by 100%. Of course, it is my hope that management would just honor the commitments it makes in good faith. (perhaps a penalty "make up flying" adjustment might incentivize them to be fair for a change)

How would management respond if I call in and said, "you know that crappy 11 hour three day that you created by carving out the Duty In is not convenient for me, so I am just not going to fly it" ?

Point being; if management expects us to honor the contract, it should act in good faith also.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Here it is Alan:

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Crew Tracking Interaction during FDP Extensions

We’ve received intermittent reports from Detroit pilots (as well as pilots from other bases) that interactions with Crew Tracking, when dealing with flight duty period (FDP) issues, have become somewhat “aggressive”, and are requiring pilots to justify their actions with the OCC Duty Pilot or other personnel.

We remind you that, as per the changes made to the PWA in LOA 14-01, ANY extension to the FDP requires the concurrence of ALL pilots scheduled to fly the particular leg, not just the PIC!

If you are in a situation where an FDP extension is required to complete the flight, but you are within your PWA duty period (< max scheduled + 2 hrs), you are required to conduct a “fitness for duty” check. If you, or anyone on the crew, determines that they are not fit for duty, you have a responsibility to not concur with the extension, and you should so notify Crew Tracking.

“Not fit to continue” is NOT the same as a fatigue call. You are NOT required to say you are fatigued to refuse an FDP extension, only that you are “not fit to continue” or some other equivalent statement.

You are not required to inform or discuss the situation with any party other than Crew Tracking or Dispatch at the point the choice not to extend is made (and that discussion should really be limited to not concurring to an extension because you don’t feel fit for duty). OCC Duty Pilots are NOT in the “chain of command” and are only considered “facilitators”; they are not empowered to discuss FAR 117 fitness requirements or pay implications.

If you are in a position where Crew Tracking insists that that you speak to another party, or declare you are fatigued, simply inform them that you are not required to do so, that you are not fit to continue, and you’ll be happy to discuss any required clarification with your base Chief Pilot AFTER your designated FAR rest period. Note that your FAR rest period does not begin until your company tasks (including any interaction with Crew Tracking) are concluded.

If you have exceeded your max actual PWA duty day, which is the maximum scheduled duty plus two hours (scheduled / max scheduled duty day is located in the upper right of the rotation display), you are not required to provide any reason to Crew Tracking. You have completed your contractual obligation. This provision will apply until the implementation of the FDP duty tables and the other PWA parameters from LOA 14-01, as well as the 5:15 ADG (Average Daily Guarantee), become effective NLT the November 2014 bid period.

If you have encountered any of the situations with Crew Tracking described above, or any other situation that you believe could be classified as “pilot pushing”, please inform one of us as soon as possible, and file an ASAP report.

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Carl

Originally Posted by TheManager

Idea only.

Being that it is unlikely we will be able to significantly modify our JV agreements with the company during C15k and,

Being that they have showed no intention of moving to rebalance over the last 3-4 years, basically during the life of the JV itself, and

Being that RA touted the JV alliances yesterday as being able to operate as a single airline with the European AFKLM employees and the significant benefits of that to analysts,


Then how about a penalty in the form of a fine. For every seat flown out of balance, an amount of money is collected.

Warning and disclaimer. I have no actually non compliance numbers, bellow is a wag.

If for an example the imbalance was let's say 5000 seats a day, at $20 per seat, then $100,000 collected per day. That equates to $36,500,000 per year. Divided equally among 12k pilots for ease of illustration, it comes to $3,041.66 Personally, don't believe that the per pilot figure is penalty enough for willfully violating our contract to enhance Deltas bottom line and performance driven metrics.

Again, disclaimer. Raw idea to provoke debate. It is better to have the JVs in balance and have the jobs and upgrades. Perhaps fining a significant amount will be painful enough to motivate management to stick to the balances.

Originally Posted by TheManager

Recently, due to unscheduled events and the crappy trips built pushed to the max scheduled duty day, this came into play for myself for the first time.

This above would have been good to know going into it. I will say that the duty pilot is of no help. His job is to take your statement if you punch out. You will talk to him.

Crew tracking a different animal. Honestly can say that they will try and compel one to do what is "contractually required" and will really emphasize this. In my case, I had to manage the call like a deposition to get correct information concerning 117 requirements v. CBA requirements. Because of my lack of complete knowledge, I attempted to fill some holes in that knowledge during our conversation. The crew tracker tried to exploit that to present information that would have one believe that we are required to go to max + 2 automatically.

I believe that might qualify by definition as pilot pushing.

Originally Posted by shiznit

You're back!!!! You've been missed... I was hoping you went to find the contractual references I was asking you for.

Ready to address your misleading, inaccurate....well, flat out untrue statement about "American will pay $40/hr more than Delta" yet?

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I would think that in any conflict between the PWA vs FAR's, the FAR's would take precedence 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. The two-hour extension under 117 is optional. Period. The PWA can't force this into something that is not optional.

Interesting that FAR 117 is actually the more restrictive of the two in this case.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

In other news, JFK-TLV resumes tonight.

Originally Posted by Pilot Strike

The Sickout
CALL TO ACTION – 20,000 REGIONAL PILOTS

When was the last time you heard about an airline pilot being arrested for violating the Railway Labor Act? Well, you couldn’t have heard of such a thing because it has never happened. There are numerous dogmatic pilots spewing this misinformation. It is a mindset accepted as factual but nobody can support their reasoning or back it up with the law. If you are so confident it has happened please cite a case in the comment box below.

Myth: I can be arrested for violating the Railway Labor Act.

Fact: The Railway Labor Act is a Civil Statute and not a Criminal Statute. The only criminality established within the Railway Labor Act is for a carrier, officer or agent. Criminality does not exist for an “employee” under The Act. 45 U.S. Code § 152 Tenth paragraph. (Read more here)

We are all in the same boat. We all want to do SOMETHING…but it seems we can’t do anything. We see each other once or twice a year. We cannot coordinate and are not unified. The job is the last thing any pilot wants to think about on his or her day off.

We have no collaboration. Individual pilots and unions are simply fearful. Pilots may have their own small safety campaigns that don’t get them anywhere. Nobody wants to speak in public about any job action because they are fearful of retaliation, a lawsuit or jeopardizing a future mainline job. The data shows there will be 19,808 mandatory retirements over the next 10 years.

This website is here to bring change. This is an unmoderated site where we can collaborate and organize job actions under anonymity. (privacy).

The purpose of this is not to bankrupt our employers, but to simply send a message. Some of our mainline partners have been posting record profits while we flounder in an endless sea of nothing. Uncertain futures are on the horizon and non-existent calls for a greener pasture. We need to send a message that we are unified and will do what it takes to keep moving forward.

If we can do this, we can do anything. We will send a powerful message if we stick together and STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.