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Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Old 08-22-2014, 03:50 PM
  #166631  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post
Was this LCA standing outside of a Taco Bell in downtown Atlanta?


Did she have an Adam's apple?
One time had a hooker in South America try to hide her? Adam's apple with a huge man hand.

Didn't fool me. Negotiated a nice discount on that one. : )

Last edited by casual observer; 08-22-2014 at 03:51 PM. Reason: better
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:07 PM
  #166632  
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Originally Posted by WidgetDriver View Post
Had a LCA tell me that the company isn't happy with the 717 numbers. He said they aren't getting the fuel numbers they were hoping for, and they expected it to go more junior. He said to expect an announcement this fall that they are going to stop taking delivery of the rest of the 717s.
We are coming up on contract negotiations. Management probably wants to backfill with more large RJ's and outsourcing. Or, they might want us to "buy" our scope.

LCA are management's equivalent to ALPA pilot 2 pilot during contract negotiations. ... not saying they are not an excellent source of good information.

You might recall that I took a lot of heat for this research.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post

What about the 717 ? Here's some 717 porn for starters: 717 Sales Handout

CASM - Cost Per Average Seat Mile ... cost to move one butt, one mile. Includes direct aircraft operating expenses, including aircraft ownership. Source - US DOT / BTS (Bureau of Transportation Statistics) Second Quarter of 2010 Link: RITA | BTS | Transtats Pay Service, if you don't like doing your own spreadsheets, link: PlaneStats by Oliver Wyman

B737-700 (airTran) CASM = 5.3
A320 - CASM = 6.2
B737-800 (Delta) CASM = 7.1
B717 - CASM = 7.9

Now, the real competition for the 717:

CRj900 (76 Seats) SKYW - CASM = 5.3
CRj700 GoJets = 6.0

The numbers tell the story.

Relevance of 717 to Southwest continues to diminish
By Lori Ranson ([email protected]) (Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com (Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com))

Southwest Airlines continues to see less of a role for the Boeing (Latest news and blog posts from the Flightglobal team) 717 as the markets the aircraft serves increasingly become unviable in a high fuel cost operating environment.

Through its acquisition of AirTran finalised in May, Southwest obtained 88 of the small narrowbodies.

Citing the small role 88 aircraft play in the combined AirTran-Southwest fleet of roughly 700 aircraft, Southwest CEO Gary Kelly declared to attendees today at the International Aviation Forecast Summit hosted by the Boyd Group that the 717 does not "bring any unique benefit that Southwest cannot get with the 737".

Kelly stated the 717 is roughly the same size and offers close to same economics as the 737-500s the carrier operates. However, he did highlight higher maintenance costs on the Rolls-Royce engines powering the 717s.

Rising fuel costs are also leading to some 717 markets operated by AirTran to become unsustainable, as evidenced by the carrier's decision to cut four markets that are all or partially served by 717s - Asheville, NC; Atlantic City, New Jersey; Moline, Illinois and Newport News, Virginia.

Underscoring that smaller-gauge aircraft are tough to operate in those markets as fuel costs climb, Kelly said in the long term he does not see the 717 playing a strategic role in Southwest's fleet.

He stated some of the lease expirations on the 717s begin in 2017 and continue through 2024. Southwest is in discussions with Boeing regarding the 717 leases, Kelly explained.

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 08-22-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:13 PM
  #166633  
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Originally Posted by WidgetDriver View Post
Had a LCA tell me that the company isn't happy with the 717 numbers. He said they aren't getting the fuel numbers they were hoping for, and they expected it to go more junior. He said to expect an announcement this fall that they are going to stop taking delivery of the rest of the 717s.
This may be the worst rumor I've heard yet. Ever. Marketing loves the plane. What fuel numbers were they hoping for? 5000 lbs/hr with 110 people on average.
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:28 PM
  #166634  
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Well, I sure got this one wrong:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
I'll look for Moak to put out a damage control letter shortly. He's a lame duck leader now, but he doesn't want open hostility for him in his last few months. He'll have to carefully craft a letter that shows him to still be interested in labor, without walking away from what he's promised Wall Street and airline management.
Originally Posted by gzsg View Post
Carl

I.bet he doesn't say i word.

Let them eat.cake!

Jerry
You nailed it Jerry. Tip of the cap to you sir.

Carl
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:32 PM
  #166635  
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Originally Posted by scambo1 View Post
I'm bowing to you Professor Crane. Can I use hotel reward points to buy some payback days?
Ha Ha! My schedule on Icrew is pretty "busy" looking but I think I might frame it 'cause I'll never see it again!

Sorry about the bragging everyone, I just had to tell someone and youse guys were elected!

As Carl alluded to, if we (the APC we) ever meet, the beer is on me!

Denny
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:41 PM
  #166636  
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Originally Posted by WidgetDriver View Post
Had a LCA tell me that the company isn't happy with the 717 numbers. He said they aren't getting the fuel numbers they were hoping for, and they expected it to go more junior. He said to expect an announcement this fall that they are going to stop taking delivery of the rest of the 717s.
Sounds like a bored LCA is trying to see how far his made up rumor will go.
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:26 PM
  #166637  
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Originally Posted by GunshipGuy View Post
Sounds like a bored LCA is trying to see how far his made up rumor will go.


Spoke with a senior 717 check airman today and he verified the "Oscar Mayerness" of this rumor...was told that we are actually trying to get 12 more from another source...was, also, told that Quantas is trying to get their hands on as many as possible, too...FWIW...
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:54 PM
  #166638  
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Originally Posted by gzsg View Post
MD Says in his message RFP widebodies for growth. At least some. Is this true?
Its obvious that DAL is having some organic growth.

The flipside to that is that they also control when they park widebodies.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:11 PM
  #166639  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar View Post
We are coming up on contract negotiations. Management probably wants to backfill with more large RJ's and outsourcing. Or, they might want us to "buy" our scope.

LCA are management's equivalent to ALPA pilot 2 pilot during contract negotiations. ... not saying they are not an excellent source of good information.

You might recall that I took a lot of heat for this research.


Relevance of 717 to Southwest continues to diminish
By Lori Ranson ([email protected]) (Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com (Aviation News | Aviation Industry & Airline Statistics | flightglobal.com))

Southwest Airlines continues to see less of a role for the Boeing (Latest news and blog posts from the Flightglobal team) 717 as the markets the aircraft serves increasingly become unviable in a high fuel cost operating environment.

Through its acquisition of AirTran finalised in May, Southwest obtained 88 of the small narrowbodies.

Citing the small role 88 aircraft play in the combined AirTran-Southwest fleet of roughly 700 aircraft, Southwest CEO Gary Kelly declared to attendees today at the International Aviation Forecast Summit hosted by the Boyd Group that the 717 does not "bring any unique benefit that Southwest cannot get with the 737".

Kelly stated the 717 is roughly the same size and offers close to same economics as the 737-500s the carrier operates. However, he did highlight higher maintenance costs on the Rolls-Royce engines powering the 717s.

Rising fuel costs are also leading to some 717 markets operated by AirTran to become unsustainable, as evidenced by the carrier's decision to cut four markets that are all or partially served by 717s - Asheville, NC; Atlantic City, New Jersey; Moline, Illinois and Newport News, Virginia.

Underscoring that smaller-gauge aircraft are tough to operate in those markets as fuel costs climb, Kelly said in the long term he does not see the 717 playing a strategic role in Southwest's fleet.

He stated some of the lease expirations on the 717s begin in 2017 and continue through 2024. Southwest is in discussions with Boeing regarding the 717 leases, Kelly explained.
Don't dispute any of this. However, CASM is only part of the equation. What are the RASM numbers? (And, for what it's worth, I have not idea myself). I think that we operate the 717 on many of the old routes as the DC-9 last summer. And we were making a ton of money with the -9. Another issue, the 717 carries couple of dozen less pax then the -9, but also burns much less fuel, is probably at least as reliable, maybe more reliable, and significantly less costly to maintain, as the -9 was getting expensive on MTX the older it got. Hope these comments are helpful.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:24 PM
  #166640  
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Originally Posted by casual observer View Post
We've all been there.
Ha! Not all of us but I had my crew in a bar in downtown Waikiki and my copilot was all over this chick at the bar. It took me awhile, but I pulled him aside and told him "dude, that's a dude." He was crushed. Squadron humor ensued for months however. Good times.
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