Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Cause we asked for it?
We've always been clamoring for more productive days. Guys would get on here, and say that don't care how hard they work when they're at work, they want more days off. Now we got ADG 5:15. We should be thrilled, right?
The problem is, Carmen, or whatever the system is called, isn't going to give you a bunch of credit time for the purpose of commuting. It's going to build a lot of flying into the first and last days of your rotation, especially short rotations, to avoid credit time. It's also going to try to do more duty periods than calendar days in the same rotation.
There is an inherent conflict between getting more minimum credit per day, and making the first and last day commutable. We simply need to know what we want to prioritize. I think most guys want as high a credit time as possible, and keep their fingers crossed that the trips will come out commutable, even though they know there is no logical reason they would.
We've always been clamoring for more productive days. Guys would get on here, and say that don't care how hard they work when they're at work, they want more days off. Now we got ADG 5:15. We should be thrilled, right?
The problem is, Carmen, or whatever the system is called, isn't going to give you a bunch of credit time for the purpose of commuting. It's going to build a lot of flying into the first and last days of your rotation, especially short rotations, to avoid credit time. It's also going to try to do more duty periods than calendar days in the same rotation.
There is an inherent conflict between getting more minimum credit per day, and making the first and last day commutable. We simply need to know what we want to prioritize. I think most guys want as high a credit time as possible, and keep their fingers crossed that the trips will come out commutable, even though they know there is no logical reason they would.
Cause we asked for it?
We've always been clamoring for more productive days. Guys would get on here, and say that don't care how hard they work when they're at work, they want more days off. Now we got ADG 5:15. We should be thrilled, right?
The problem is, Carmen, or whatever the system is called, isn't going to give you a bunch of credit time for the purpose of commuting. It's going to build a lot of flying into the first and last days of your rotation, especially short rotations, to avoid credit time. It's also going to try to do more duty periods than calendar days in the same rotation.
There is an inherent conflict between getting more minimum credit per day, and making the first and last day commutable. We simply need to know what we want to prioritize. I think most guys want as high a credit time as possible, and keep their fingers crossed that the trips will come out commutable, even though they know there is no logical reason they would.
We've always been clamoring for more productive days. Guys would get on here, and say that don't care how hard they work when they're at work, they want more days off. Now we got ADG 5:15. We should be thrilled, right?
The problem is, Carmen, or whatever the system is called, isn't going to give you a bunch of credit time for the purpose of commuting. It's going to build a lot of flying into the first and last days of your rotation, especially short rotations, to avoid credit time. It's also going to try to do more duty periods than calendar days in the same rotation.
There is an inherent conflict between getting more minimum credit per day, and making the first and last day commutable. We simply need to know what we want to prioritize. I think most guys want as high a credit time as possible, and keep their fingers crossed that the trips will come out commutable, even though they know there is no logical reason they would.
Back in the day it was a full month to do 3 4-day domestic trips. Now you have to do 4. Also those 3 trips were typically commutable, now the 4 we have to do start at 0500 and get done at 2000.
Every contract we get "better" work rules, but the company exploits them to make them cost neutral and we get screwed.
Won't be long until we are all doing 4 5-day trips a month to make what our neighbors who manage Wal-Mart make.
How about we stop getting more "efficient" work rules and just make them pay us in rates? I would rather do 3 4-day trips a month than 4 5-day trips a month for the same pay.
Back in the day it was a full month to do 3 4-day domestic trips. Now you have to do 4. Also those 3 trips were typically commutable, now the 4 we have to do start at 0500 and get done at 2000.
How about we stop getting more "efficient" work rules and just make them pay us in rates? I would rather do 3 4-day trips a month than 4 5-day trips a month for the same pay.
Imo, being on the bottom end of any domestic category strongly resembles a regional airline lifestyle. I think captains going over 10,000 at an airline of 12,500 pilots reflects that.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: MD musical chairs
Posts: 239
Every contract we get "better" work rules, but the company exploits them to make them cost neutral and we get screwed.
Won't be long until we are all doing 4 5-day trips a month to make what our neighbors who manage Wal-Mart make.
How about we stop getting more "efficient" work rules and just make them pay us in rates? I would rather do 3 4-day trips a month than 4 5-day trips a month for the same pay.
Won't be long until we are all doing 4 5-day trips a month to make what our neighbors who manage Wal-Mart make.
How about we stop getting more "efficient" work rules and just make them pay us in rates? I would rather do 3 4-day trips a month than 4 5-day trips a month for the same pay.
moral of the story is touching how much we are paid or scheduling in any way to get someone to their happy spot and you ruin someone elses happy spot.
Especially if it's a cost neutral adjustment.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
You are correct, as soon as we got 5:15 ADG, the 4 day, commutable trips pretty much disappeared in DTW...at least for me at 60% down the list of ER FO's. I either had to do GRU's or 5 day trips that ended with a red eye. I have since, switched to ATL because it appeared at the time, that there were many 4 day, commutable trips. Now, with this letter, I am afraid it might have been for nothing.
I keep hearing from the company that they're trying to decrease credit time but one look at a 73N bid pack and it looks like they haven't optimized the trips in that category yet...4 day trips with 13 hours of flying and DH's all over the place.
I keep hearing from the company that they're trying to decrease credit time but one look at a 73N bid pack and it looks like they haven't optimized the trips in that category yet...4 day trips with 13 hours of flying and DH's all over the place.
When you have routes where the company switches similar or even same sized planes around regardless (irregardless?) of pairing considerations and then hands off the flying to build pairings, degraded QOL is going to be the result. Ironically that pushes us to demand (rightfully so) better work rules and rigs (aka financial consequences) for QOL degradations in the first place. The company may then turn around and point to the very QOL hits that they created and say that (and the drastically increased training bubble) drives poor productivity because we're all sitting around at the airport/hotels and they want other offsets elsewhere to make up for the supposed lack of productivity.
The QOL ship has sailed.
There are simply not enough guys who care about quality of life.
Time off has clearly become secondary among Delta pilots.
The majority wants to work to the FARs.
The best thing we could possibly do would be to bring back some sort of cap.
Very few want that though. They see it as a pay cut if they can only fly 75 hours instead of 90.
The fact that they could be making more and working less by faster advancement to captain or larger equipment doesn't seem to matter. They somehow don't believe it.
As mentioned by someone earlier, the people this is really killing is the commuters. I don't see how anybody commutes that isn't VERY senior in category. Coming in the day prior, even occasionally, is just such a huge chunk of time out of your life. Nobody seems to realize that you are essentially WORKING during that time. For a payrate of $0. Plus you pay the hotel or crashpad.
BRING BACK A CAP !!
There are simply not enough guys who care about quality of life.
Time off has clearly become secondary among Delta pilots.
The majority wants to work to the FARs.
The best thing we could possibly do would be to bring back some sort of cap.
Very few want that though. They see it as a pay cut if they can only fly 75 hours instead of 90.
The fact that they could be making more and working less by faster advancement to captain or larger equipment doesn't seem to matter. They somehow don't believe it.
As mentioned by someone earlier, the people this is really killing is the commuters. I don't see how anybody commutes that isn't VERY senior in category. Coming in the day prior, even occasionally, is just such a huge chunk of time out of your life. Nobody seems to realize that you are essentially WORKING during that time. For a payrate of $0. Plus you pay the hotel or crashpad.
BRING BACK A CAP !!
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
I'm completely on board with a cap.
The QOL ship has sailed.
There are simply not enough guys who care about quality of life.
Time off has clearly become secondary among Delta pilots.
The majority wants to work to the FARs.
The best thing we could possibly do would be to bring back some sort of cap.
Very few want that though. They see it as a pay cut if they can only fly 75 hours instead of 90.
The fact that they could be making more and working less by faster advancement to captain or larger equipment doesn't seem to matter. They somehow don't believe it.
As mentioned by someone earlier, the people this is really killing is the commuters. I don't see how anybody commutes that isn't VERY senior in category. Coming in the day prior, even occasionally, is just such a huge chunk of time out of your life. Nobody seems to realize that you are essentially WORKING during that time. For a payrate of $0. Plus you pay the hotel or crashpad.
BRING BACK A CAP !!
There are simply not enough guys who care about quality of life.
Time off has clearly become secondary among Delta pilots.
The majority wants to work to the FARs.
The best thing we could possibly do would be to bring back some sort of cap.
Very few want that though. They see it as a pay cut if they can only fly 75 hours instead of 90.
The fact that they could be making more and working less by faster advancement to captain or larger equipment doesn't seem to matter. They somehow don't believe it.
As mentioned by someone earlier, the people this is really killing is the commuters. I don't see how anybody commutes that isn't VERY senior in category. Coming in the day prior, even occasionally, is just such a huge chunk of time out of your life. Nobody seems to realize that you are essentially WORKING during that time. For a payrate of $0. Plus you pay the hotel or crashpad.
BRING BACK A CAP !!
Let people drop a turn. Make thing is more commutable but the catch, someone has to first pick up the turn AND the turn is only paid in block hours.
Disclaimer
I thought that up on my own and on the fly. No research or thought was put into it. It really is just throwing something against the wall.
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