Fair enough. It is business. But unless I've majorily missed something, I believe we are not asking your union to limit you but our company to limit DCI. Keep in mind our union negotiates with Delta Air Lines, your union does not.
There is one little problem with that theory...Legally speaking, there is only one "ALPA". Legally speaking, we both belong to the SAME union. This would work with American and Eagle, because they are different unions. That won't work with ALPA anymore. Either we work TOGETHER on scope, or there will be legal issues.
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You know people laugh at the Teamsters and get mad at RAH for a lot of things, but I have to say their section 1 is pretty good:
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
E. Foreign Bases
Ours is over 4,000 words.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-21-2010 at 08:28 PM.
You know people laugh at the Teamsters and get mad at RAH for a lot of things, but I have to say their section 1 is pretty good:
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and
future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
3. The Company, Subsidiary of the Company, the Company’s
Parent or Subsidiary of the Parent shall not establish any new
airline (alter ego or otherwise) or acquire a controlling interest in
any carrier whether directly or through the Parent or another
Subsidiary of the Parent, and maintain it as a separate carrier.
A “Controlling Interest” or “Control” means the ownership of an
equity interest representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the
outstanding capital stock of an entity or voting securities
representing more than fifty percent (50%) of the total voting
power of outstanding securities then entitled to vote generally in
the election of such entity’s board of directors or other governing
body.
4. The Company will not transfer aircraft, or operating authority to
its Parent, a Subsidiary of the Parent, or to a Subsidiary of the
Company for the purpose of evading the terms of this
Agreement. The Company will also not establish a third party
leasing device to evade the terms of this agreement.
E. Foreign Bases
They did it right. It cost them in other areas, but it is paying off for them now....The problem is, many pilots aren't willing to pay now for an investment that pays down the road....They want the pay now.
There is one little problem with that theory...Legally speaking, there is only one "ALPA". Legally speaking, we both belong to the SAME union. This would work with American and Eagle, because they are different unions. That won't work with ALPA anymore. Either we work TOGETHER on scope, or there will be legal issues.
So... does your contract scope Delta's use of DC9s, MD88/90s, A320s, 757s, 767s, 747s, A330s, 777s or 737s?
They did it right. It cost them in other areas, but it is paying off for them now....The problem is, many pilots aren't willing to pay now for an investment that pays down the road....They want the pay now.
Thats right and ironically it was what everyone outside of RAH was yelling at them for in 2002 or 03 when they got that contract because they didn't get a big enough pay raise but they got that scope and prevented a GoJet issue.
The ATR 42-600 and 72-600 are on the way with better performance, upgraded cockpits and better engines and I think like at least 55% fuel savings if not greater between the 72 and CRJ700.
Why don't we see more regionals, i.e. ASA, going for the Q400 and ATR? Seems to be clear DAL will park 50 seaters as their leases come up, why not get in the TP business again and beat the other DCIs to it and secure more flying, especially if oil decides to climb, for the pilot group? Kind of like Colgan is doing in EWR.
Would pilots trade a CRJ-200 for an ATR 42-500 or -600 right now?
A) Can we contract a Star Alliance airline flying feed for us as a SkyTeam member?
What I worry about is RAH joining SkyTeam! Anderson is Anderson. He is the same CEO now as he was with NWA. I worry he might use RAH for a domestic feed opportunity.
I always thought "ALLIANCES" were a "fancy" way of "outsourcing and scope-dodging"..
How much would it cost to swap Chautauqua with Delta, Teamsters with DALPA and change the words all present and future flying to say all future flying as of January 1, 2010?
Quote:
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
D. Scope
1. This Agreement covers the company, any subsidiary of the
company, the company’s parent, any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and any future airline certificate(s) created as
a subsidiary of the company or subsidiary of the company’s
parent.
2. Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement, all present and future flying (including that international flying which originates
or terminates within the United States or its possessions) and all
charters, ferry flights (not including ferry flights of newlyacquired
aircraft prior to being placed in revenue service),
training flights, test flights, (except test flights assigned to
management), or other utilization of aircraft owned or leased by
the company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company or subsidiary of the company’s parent shall be
performed by pilots on the Chautauqua Airlines Pilots’ System
Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this
Agreement or any other applicable agreement between the
company, the company’s parent or any subsidiary of the
company’s parent and the International Brotherhood of
Teamsters, Airline Division.
E. Foreign Bases
1. May only be in Sao Paulo, Rio De Whatever and Prague...
Do people leave the airplane with the APU running?
No offense to DTW, but man if I left that airplane with the APU running and it caught fire there wasn't anyone to be seen on that ramp anywhere to go pull the fire handle in the tail.
If I remember..it auto shuts down on the ground for everything..right?
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