that's a lot of reading for me. I need a mental break. I get these when we get airborne sometimes on the 88 and are flying home. While I'm looking out at nothing... also called Mississippi, or staring at the cities in the Appalachians... also called Appalachia, I just look out the window and think to myself...
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ALPA delivered the three richest contracts in US airline history in 2000-2001 (DAL, UAL, AAA). They were destroyed in bankruptcy bargaining in the middle of the decade. The contract history came out 10 days ago. The contract comparison isn't even out yet, much less the contract survey. So you tossing out numbers must mean that's where you're comfortable...
It's hard not to feel that way when there is an overwhelming amount of managing of our expectations. Every time I see an ALPA memo about "how to read a balance sheet" and "explaining fuel hedging", I just roll my eyes. Even though the Unical guys have a dysfunctional relationship at best, within their two pilot groups and management, at least they promote themselves well, and broadcast what they deserve, and what they won't give up. All we hear are whispers, unsubstantiated rumors, and get goofy memos. Let's get this survey done soon, and then let's get an opener that states clearly what we deserve, comparing us to comparable peers like AF/KLM/SWA. If they can't do that soon, then let's find someone, like the DPA, that can.
It's great that ALPA gave the three richest contracts back in 2000/2001. Since then, even with the stated synergies and potential of a powerhouse merger, not so good. I have talked to my reps in my base, and they don't seem that enthuised. Did the MEC manage their expectations?
I want to hear positive things from the MEC. I want to see a positive opener, and I want to be treated like a star. I'm not feeling the LUV.
I don't know any numbers about Delta cargo. But I have experience with Delta Dash. When I was running a corporate operation I had tires go low on my boss' jet on the eve of a $56,000 charter. As is typical, jets only break on holidays and weekends and this was no different.
We got the ball rolling early and had two tires put on a plane from FLL-ATL on Delta Dash. A courier brought them to us and then two mechanics charged me a small fortune for 25 minutes of work. Next morning and hours before sunrise we were on our way to New York and then TNCM.
That counter-to-counter on Delta was the only option and not just because we were in ATL. Had we been in SDF the same day option from Delta Dash was it. Or I'm sure it would've been. Normally everything shipped FedEx but we couldn't wait for overnight.
So we paid for it, or the maintenance program did, and it was not cheap but it was worth every dime because looking back.
And there was a life lesson in all of it, if you run a plane commercially, and if the airplane has tire pressure gauges installed on the assembly, rip them off. When a tire goes 5% down off 160 psi it's a new tire and 10% down is both tires. Let's just say I've seen tires fluctuate that much sitting in the hangar. But one of ours was at 20% so they were goners.
Now all of that brings me to this. There may have been a name dropping LCA at a very popular airline who took it upon himself about two or so years ago to delay a flight out of Europe for 1:30 or more, as I recall, because the NOTAC was not delivered 10 minutes prior. It arrived 5 minutes prior. Just 5. It was ready to go though and a photocopy of the exact form had been made and sitting in the cockpit the entire time, but there was a point to be made, and almost 2 hours was wasted removing the hazmat. I can't imagine the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ his point cost the company and the passengers on that plane.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 07-10-2011 at 08:13 PM.
It's hard not to feel that way when there is an overwhelming amount of managing of our expectations. Every time I see an ALPA memo about "how to read a balance sheet" and "explaining fuel hedging", I just roll my eyes. Even though the Unical guys have a dysfunctional relationship at best, within their two pilot groups and management, at least they promote themselves well, and broadcast what they deserve, and what they won't give up. All we hear are whispers, unsubstantiated rumors, and get goofy memos.
I didn't realize that you were so easily "managed." Instead of reading for managed expectations, how about reading so that you can come to an educated conclusion on what you want to put on your survey? A conclusion based on the facts surrounding our company, this industry, and where we currently stand that will provide direction for where you want to go.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
It's a great ancillary business. Tell me again how much those 9 dedicated freighters lost us in 2008 before the shutdown?
Point is, FedEx and UPS have created a duopoly in their overnight package delivery business. They ran ABX, DHL, and the USPS into insignficant market share. They are both extremely profitable and are paying some of the highest wage rates in the US piloting business. Their main deck freighter counterparts (Atlas, Kalitta, et. al.) pay less than us on like aircraft. APC shows Atlas at $176 per hour for a 747. Astar and ABX only have a few pilots left after massive furloughs.
whoops... According to the unionoid types and others, those freighters were mismanaged into the ground even losing the DHL contract before DL even took control of the operation. It's pretty bad to lose a contract of a horribly run company trying their hand at being the low cost in the express business. USPS... well, that's the government for you.
Had we kept the freighters, we would (with appropriate management of them) be among the ranks of Atlas and Kalitta making absolute gobs of money and buying new 747-400s and 747-800s on the worldwide large freight business. Would 30 dollars an hour difference on flight crews make or break that operation? Give me a freaking break if you think that's the case.
I sure wish we were part of that, don't you?
Quote:
Because making fact based emotional arguments ( such as I'm doing the same job) hasn't worked in a long time. If they did Lloyd Hill and APA would be sitting on a 52% payraise right now and we'd pattern off of them. If they did, there wouldn't be such huge disparities in pay for pilots in the same aircraft and industry. There wouldn't be a $70 per hour difference betweek FedEx and Atlas heavy drivers. There wouldn't be a $40/hr difference between USAirways and Delta A320 pilots. Even in your personal history you joined 9E whose contract was substantially beneath CMR and ASA while you guys flew the same airplane. Why was that?
All the points you raise are fact. Look at the recent history of contract negotiations. Tell me what arguments worked and which ones didn't. I'm looking for the winning argument, not the populist and feel good ones.
I would like the winning arguments as well... and just so you know, when I joined 9E we were average to above average on CRJ-200 pay. I applied to ASA and 9E and got called by 9E first. CMR didn't come on the map as I could see the writing on the wall there. Also, with the aircraft orders on the books at 9E at that point in time, I upgraded to CA in 14 months. That would have taken 4 years to do at ASA, so you tell me who made more money?
At 9E, there was then 7 years of negotiations assisted by ALPA's finest lawyers, right? (much more complicated that, I can't resist taking a jab when I can)
I didn't realize that you were so easily "managed." Instead of reading for managed expectations, how about reading so that you can come to an educated conclusion on what you want to put on your survey? A conclusion based on the facts surrounding our company, this industry, and where we currently stand that will provide direction for where you want to go.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
Come on Man,
That is like a coach telling his team, "Im glad we're a team that is over 500 for the year and we made the playoffs, but we came up short and got knocked out the first round." You go in and want to win the whole thing!! You and ALPA seem like settling for some 10% raise is the answer. Don't you want significant gains for our pilot group? A 40% pay cut under a bankruptcy contract, loss of a pension, and now the company is making money. SWA plus should be just a start. They fly just 737 and our fleet goes up to 747-777-330. Its not even apples to oranges and you keep posting on here like we can't even get over their rates. You are unreal!!
I didn't realize that you were so easily "managed." Instead of reading for managed expectations, how about reading so that you can come to an educated conclusion on what you want to put on your survey? A conclusion based on the facts surrounding our company, this industry, and where we currently stand that will provide direction for where you want to go.
Oh, you're paid more than the Unocal guys, and the CAL guys haven't been to a bankruptcy court in what, 20 years. Delta Captains make about $20-$30 more per hour than a comparable UAL guy right now. But at least they promote themselves well. Personally, I prefer the paycheck, equity, and not having 1450 on the street with an incomplete merger staring me in the face.
Geeze Slow,
Can ya answer a question without attacking the guy asking a question?
I really am trying to understand all this. But you being a butt head is pushing one way.....and it ain't you're way.
Lighten up dude.
Ferd
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(much more complicated that, I can't resist taking a jab when I can)
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