IF DALPA continues in their ways of the past then imo the pilots voices will be heard and DPA will carry the torch. The choice is DALPA's.
If DPA continues their quest I don't think they will carry the torch. However, even if they do, we will be well in 2015 or later before we see a new contract.
The right thing for them to do is to abandon their de-certification effort and join the other 8000-9000 pilots in showing a united face toward mgt. That is the fastest way to, "restoration".
T
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Sorry. Didn't mean to restart a DPA debate in ths thread.
I agree with sailingfun though. Sorry Carl. There needs to be a deadline.
I think DPA has honorable intent and many admirable goals but they have about another 3 or 4 months to get their cards in and schedule a vote. If they have fallen short by the time the calendar turns to 2012 then in the interest of unity they need to suspend their efforts and let DALPA concentrate on the contract. Justified or not, the DALPA troops are way too distracted by DPA.
You cannot force unity in my opinion. Unity is earned through respect and honest communications. If ALPA won't do it, DPA will. If ALPA won't produce a TA based on what the pilots really want, a majority of us will vote NO and send them back to the table. I don't believe you can use the general concept of "unity" as a bludgeon to stifle the democratic process. You'll only make the desire for a new direction stronger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check Essential
Carl - face it, your presence makes those guys hyper-ventilate. That's a good thing right now. But not next year.
I don't think I make a damn bit of difference. But if by "your" presence you mean the DPA's presence, I think you're right. But they need to be hyper-ventilating. I want them more scared of us than they are of not getting their next plumb management/government job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check Essential
Its just my opinion but I think if DPA continues their activities into 2012 then they will be harming the pilot group (and any chance they might have of getting enough cards any time in the future).
I respectfully disagree. I have no trust in ALPA to look out for my future. They've proven themselves untrustworthy in court. But I'm stuck with them right now. As such, I have to support their efforts to gain the maximum we can gain, until the second I can replace them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check Essential
Urging a "NO" vote on any TA they see as inadequate is perfectly legitimate. But continuing to advocate the decertification of ALPA is not. Not while the contract is open in Section 6.
Again, I respectfully disagree. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time. If ALPA is upset because they think they will be negotiating with a gun at their heads, that's exactly how I want them to feel. Especially during the "meet and confer" sessions with the regionals that are doing the majority of OUR flying.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
If DPA continues their quest I don't think they will carry the torch. However, even if they do, we will be well in 2015 or later before we see a new contract.
The right thing for them to do is to abandon their de-certification effort and join the other 8000-9000 pilots in showing a united face toward mgt. That is the fastest way to, "restoration".
T
This is a totally false choice. We can do both. There is no factual basis to conclude that the DPA's presence and effort will delay our contract to 2015 or later. None.
We can show a united face to management by having this current ALPA squad represent us at the negotiating table, while at the same time have management know that ALPA is out the door the second ALPA shows any weakness. These two things happening concurrently is actually the strongest hand we can have in front of management. This is why management is fighting so hard to keep DPA off the property.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
you cannot force unity in my opinion. Unity is earned through respect and honest communications. If alpa won't do it, dpa will. If alpa won't produce a ta based on what the pilots really want, a majority of us will vote no and send them back to the table. I don't believe you can use the general concept of "unity" as a bludgeon to stifle the democratic process. You'll only make the desire for a new direction stronger.
I don't think i make a damn bit of difference. But if by "your" presence you mean the dpa's presence, i think you're right. But they need to be hyper-ventilating. I want them more scared of us than they are of not getting their next plumb management/government job.
I respectfully disagree. I have no trust in alpa to look out for my future. They've proven themselves untrustworthy in court. But i'm stuck with them right now. As such, i have to support their efforts to gain the maximum we can gain, until the second i can replace them.
Again, i respectfully disagree. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time. If alpa is upset because they think they will be negotiating with a gun at their heads, that's exactly how i want them to feel. Especially during the "meet and confer" sessions with the regionals that are doing the majority of our flying.
I disagree on this. I do think that DPA will force DALPA to grow a pair for the upcoming contract. IF DALPA continues in their ways of the past then imo the pilots voices will be heard and DPA will carry the torch. The choice is DALPA's.
Again, I respectfully disagree. We can all walk and chew gum at the same time. If ALPA is upset because they think they will be negotiating with a gun at their heads, that's exactly how I want them to feel.
Carl
You've got their attention Carl. (and yes, by "you" I mean DPA). I think as a result of DPA success, DALPA is far more aware of the pilot group's deep apprehension about too much Moak-style constructive engagement leading to a management walkover in Contract 2012.
I just think that your "walking and chewing gum" metaphor understates the seriousness of a simultaneous decertification drive going on while the contract is open.
Perhaps a more appropriate analogy would be "fighting a two-front war".
I don't want DALPA to have to do that if we can avoid it.
Respectfully.
Last edited by Check Essential; 09-05-2011 at 06:35 PM.
If DPA continues their quest I don't think they will carry the torch. However, even if they do, we will be well in 2015 or later before we see a new contract.
The right thing for them to do is to abandon their de-certification effort and join the other 8000-9000 pilots in showing a united face toward mgt. That is the fastest way to, "restoration".
T
Wow!! Spot on post.
I don't know who you are, but you are one smart dude.
What is it about the value of having influence in DC that you don't understand?
Considering the letters I got back from my senators in regards to the FTDT stuff (yikes is all I have to say), not to mention Age 65.... I'm not sure how much influence that really is.
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