I will keep it simple Carl. It has been tried before at FDX and look who they came back to?
Fighting this out in the middle of section 6 is just plain bad business for the DAL pilots. The only way you could get a mid negotiation vote is if they had a TA that sold scope that failed. Even then we would be looking at four to five years for an agreement.
Call it my opinion Carl, but independents pay more assessments than we do. Lets see what happens when AMR is pulled in to a merger or CH11. They will need lots o cash to deal with that, and they do not currently have it. How much as USAPA had to pay in donations or assessments for their fight against the SLI? Does SWAPA has the cash to fight something the company wants and they don't? It will happen.
Wrt to the Reps, they are the ones that determine our leadership. The current makeup of the MEC is fairly down the middle on most issues. A slight change in your favor would make the difference. That is not "false hope." That is the reality.
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If I was the on the board of that company (you the line pilot) I would not want to declare CH7 and start a new company, I would want to find a way to create value in the current one. I would demand that my CEO (LEC Reps) clean house, and if they did not they would be gone too.
Here's what you just don't get: ALPA is not family. ALPA is not on our board and we are not on theirs. ALPA is a VENDOR. Nothing more, nothing less. If they've failed in their vendor's role as bargaining agent, they should be fired just like any other vendor. Now if ALPA has to go CH7 after we fire them, they really should have thought of that before being such a poor performing vendor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
What you are identifying is one belief of a group of individuals working for the union, not a structure of the union. I though that the C20 S/T piece identified that for you.
That piece also showed the tremendous structural defects in our vendor.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
You can't guarantee anything except that you have yet another opinion that you're trying to pawn off as fact by posting with certainty.
Carl
Carl;
DPA will go away just like PPA did when a new contract is signed. POS 96 was not a winner of a contract either, but PPA died off.
What I want to see is every pilot that put a DPA card in show up at one just one LEC meeting in their base. Show a unified force. Right now that is not seen. When that is, you will be seen as a group that needs to be given due consideration. Until then, mailing a card does nothing. Last could DPA still needed 3000+ cards to force a vote.
Here's what you just don't get: ALPA is not family. ALPA is not on our board and we are not on theirs. ALPA is a VENDOR. Nothing more, nothing less. If they've failed in their vendor's role as bargaining agent, they should be fired just like any other vendor. Now if ALPA has to go CH7 after we fire them, they really should have thought of that before being such a poor performing vendor.
That piece also showed the tremendous structural defects in our vendor.
Carl
ALPA is more than a vendor. You could get away with that explanation if not one pilot for your airline, on your seniority list volunteered or worked for ALPA, but that is not the case.
Last time I checked, people who hire vendors do not work for them.
Good sound bite, but the Ford-Cooksey settlement is meet and confer, nothing more. We can and will do what we want. You also know that.
BS. But I know you know that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Dude, it is simple math. You are a business man, and I am sure that you pay retainers et al, of services you may need. It is a lot cheaper to bundle those service or bring them in house where possible.
BS. You simply can't make the statement you made because you have no idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Lets look at the decision the TWA MEC made, and how the legal advice was crafted to meet that choice.
You had an airline on the verge of CH7 that was bought by AMR. Fact, and that reality came in to play. There are limits to everything. Is ALPA without fault? Not on your life. I too have issues with a lot of things, but the reality is that all of them can be fixed if people are willing. To date they are not. DPA will have issues, and one or two contracts down the road, people are going to want to give them the boot for the same reasons people are listing against ALPA today.
You've done nothing but restate the ALPA talking points regarding the TWA case. A jury disagreed with you/ALPA. ALPA stabbed the TWA pilots in the back, destroyed evidence and lied about what they did. That's a fact.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
Typical response. Far from brainwashed. I just know it is not a structure issue within the CB&L.
If anything within the CB&L needs to be changed, it would be voting for our leaders, with recall of National Officers left to the BOD and the MEC Admin left to the MEC.
I also would like all issues of structure and policy left up to the BOD not the Executive Board. We could leave it there, but only if these voting officers were elected by popular vote.
I am willing to back up your resolution for that. You willing to submit it?
You go ahead acl. You need the experience of having your resolutions ignored.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
Frankly Carl, the biggest power with regard to these resolutions, is how the makeup of the drafting committees is done, and how these resolutions are assigned to each committee. I suspect that a resolution could very easily pass or fail depending on the makeup of a given committee.
You're wrong dude. The DTW resolution on flight pay loss and the Ignoring of that resolution is proof.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
I will keep it simple Carl. It has been tried before at FDX and look who they came back to?
Fighting this out in the middle of section 6 is just plain bad business for the DAL pilots. The only way you could get a mid negotiation vote is if they had a TA that sold scope that failed. Even then we would be looking at four to five years for an agreement.
Call it my opinion Carl, but independents pay more assessments than we do. Lets see what happens when AMR is pulled in to a merger or CH11. They will need lots o cash to deal with that, and they do not currently have it. How much as USAPA had to pay in donations or assessments for their fight against the SLI? Does SWAPA has the cash to fight something the company wants and they don't? It will happen.
Wrt to the Reps, they are the ones that determine our leadership. The current makeup of the MEC is fairly down the middle on most issues. A slight change in your favor would make the difference. That is not "false hope." That is the reality.
Couldn't disagree more with nearly every word.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
Carl;
DPA will go away just like PPA did when a new contract is signed. POS 96 was not a winner of a contract either, but PPA died off.
What I want to see is every pilot that put a DPA card in show up at one just one LEC meeting in their base. Show a unified force. Right now that is not seen. When that is, you will be seen as a group that needs to be given due consideration. Until then, mailing a card does nothing. Last could DPA still needed 3000+ cards to force a vote.
Hilarious.
Carl
__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.
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