Heard that too. Man that is going to irk them. Not that they have a say, but if you are stuck on a jet, lets say the 88 and you want to get to DTW, for now you are SOL.
acl65, Sorry to sound cold, but Boo Hoo for them. We had to sit sideways for several years (four in my case) in a base of the company's choosing, and be on the "B" scale for five years. These guys have lots of choices so to be irked about a 12 month freeze seems pretty trivial. I would hardly call it throwing them under the bus as Hockey said.
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If that's true, that's horrible. We are going to hire hundreds per year in a few years. There's no reason these pilots should be seat locked as new hires. I was placed in ANC as a new hire. To this day, I've never been to Alaska. I was able to bid out of there immediately. I strongly disagree with throwing new hires under the bus for our own gain just because they don't work here yet.
I got to disagree. Do you really think it's right that Delta spends money training a new hire, just to have that pilot move to a different airplane weeks later? The only people that get a seat lock are pilots who are displaced. I don't consider a new hire to be a displaced pilot. They choose to come here, and then Delta spends good money to train them. I think it's perfectly fair to allow Delta to get some productivity out of a new hire before they spend even more money training them for another aircraft.
LOA 31. Yesterday evening, your C44 representatives were informed that the Negotiating Committee had reached a tentative agreement with the company regarding beneficial changes to Section 23G5 and 23K of the PWA. This tentative agreement is titled LOA 31 Scheduling Modifications. We will be briefed at the upcoming MEC Meeting and will provide you with additional details as they become available.
I got to disagree. Do you really think it's right that Delta spends money training a new hire, just to have that pilot move to a different airplane weeks later? The only people that get a seat lock are pilots who are displaced. I don't consider a new hire to be a displaced pilot. They choose to come here, and then Delta spends good money to train them. I think it's perfectly fair to allow Delta to get some productivity out of a new hire before they spend even more money training them for another aircraft.
Also keep in mind a seat lock is not a base lock.
Before we get too wrapped around the axle on this, perhaps we should wait to see what the LOA says. However, I think it would be prudent to let your reps know that we frankly, shouldn't be in a giving mood.
acl65, Sorry to sound cold, but Boo Hoo for them. We had to sit sideways for several years (four in my case) in a base of the company's choosing, and be on the "B" scale for five years. These guys have lots of choices so to be irked about a 12 month freeze seems pretty trivial. I would hardly call it throwing them under the bus as Hockey said.
Waves,
With all due respect, I don't agree with the premise or argument of, "because my generation had to endure hardship, so should the next". I do agree with you, in that a 12-month training freeze/policy wouldn't be "throwing people under the bus" as Hockey44 stated, but to have it, just because "everyone needs to embrace the suck" as a new-hire on property isn't a valid reason.
Before we get too wrapped around the axle on this, perhaps we should wait to see what the LOA says.
YGTBSM! A voice of reason on this board?
Yeah, even if true it's really throwing a guy new hire under the bus...a requirement to stay in the aircraft that he was hired to fly for 12 whole months but with the ability to move a base...and if we're training that much (remember, he's a new hire) he gets out of 23G recovery obligations.
That mythical new hire sure sounds screwed to me... I'm betting if this reported change is true it will change our new hire applications by...ZERO!
If that's true, that's horrible. We are going to hire hundreds per year in a few years. There's no reason these pilots should be seat locked as new hires. I was placed in ANC as a new hire. To this day, I've never been to Alaska. I was able to bid out of there immediately. I strongly disagree with throwing new hires under the bus for our own gain just because they don't work here yet.
I see nothing wrong with the seatlock... and it's certainly not throwing them under the bus. They just got hired with a carrier with a HUGE amount of retirements coming. I would have been perfectly happy with or without a seatlock on my initial NYC 88 award. I thought it was horribly inefficient that I could bid out of a plane they spent thousands of dollars training me on... and I only got 115 hours in it.
You, however, gained a bit of a reputation with the way you complained about your SO seat. Absolutely amazing.
Don't think I've seen it yet, but Happy Veteran's day guys. To all of you who have served or were parents, siblings, children or friends of Vets. Thanks
Saw a great good news story that I will Share involving a vet and a dog!
acl65, Sorry to sound cold, but Boo Hoo for them. We had to sit sideways for several years (four in my case) in a base of the company's choosing, and be on the "B" scale for five years. These guys have lots of choices so to be irked about a 12 month freeze seems pretty trivial. I would hardly call it throwing them under the bus as Hockey said.
Have to disagree with the statement that new hires have lots of choices. Their choices are limited to the company's needs at the time. When I got hired at "Brand X", as I recall the choices were DTW DC9, MEM DC9, and ANC 742. Now, assuming I went to work at "Brand X" because I live in MSP and want to work in MSP (neither of which are true, thank goodness.... ), I think it's a good thing that I was afforded the right to bid that ASAP.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for seat locks to reduce excessive bidding around the system and unnecessary training costs. But to lock a new-hire with a family and a house and the whole deal in, say, DTW, into flying out of NYC or LAX (yeah, yeah, I know we don't actually fly out of LAX anymore..) for a year just because those were the company's whimsical needs at the moment is a cruddy deal. Odds are that guy will have applied to Delta because he has an expectation to drive to work.
Not looking out for the "yet to be hired" will bite us in the butt in the near long term. Stuff like this will drive qualified applicants elsewhere.
And... selling the not-yet-hired out has a pretty poor history. See "B Scale"...
Then again, if this last AE is any indicator, most of us are going to end up commuting to a base/seat we don't really want eventually anyway, so...
Do you really think it's right that Delta spends money training a new hire, just to have that pilot move to a different airplane weeks later?
Do I think it's right to have Delta spend money on things such as, "the cost of doing business?" Why yes, yes I do.
Then, once they've chosen to move to a different aircraft, (weeks later as your scenario suggests) they then incur a "seat-lock" after their "first move". Again, if the company is spending too much money on things like, "the cost of doing business", it is up to them to come to the pilot group for changes & offer us more for them, ("show me the money" type stuff) not vice versa with the pilot group/D-ALPA offering concessions.
The only people that get a seat lock are pilots who are displaced. I don't consider a new hire to be a displaced pilot.
I don't either, but should a new-hire that is in the first class of the year be stuck on the 88 for 12 months, while a new-hire, in a class just three months later get the 7ER due to company formulas for staffing?
They choose to come here, and then Delta spends good money to train them.
Unlike the training costs that each individual particular pilot has had to endure to reach a point even to apply to the Majors? No offense, but are you military trained?
I think it's perfectly fair to allow Delta to get some productivity out of a new hire before they spend even more money training them for another aircraft.
After Ma' Delta offers a little "green on the table" for us "giving back" to their monetary inefficiencies of running a company, not before.
We are our own worst enemies. We, as a pilot group, and a unified front with ALPA behind us for contract negotiations, (I know Carl, I know) need to start asking the company the same question they'll ask us in negotiations. WHAT IS IT WORTH TO YOU!!
Fly safe,
GJ
Disclaimer1: I'm not privy to the changes that have been implemented, but if they weren't worth the 12-month training freeze (if that too is real) then we just "gave back to the company", once again.
Disclaimer2: Above comments to quoted material are in no way meant to seem antagonistic or offensive. Only intention is to spur debate and offer differing perspective.
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I'm betting if this reported change is true it will change our new hire applications by...ZERO!
Absolutely amazing.
), I think it's a good thing that I was afforded the right to bid that ASAP. 
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