Me too. 20% is nowhere close to restorative or even SWA. And anything other than a solid reversal of outsourcing is a non-starter. For me, it's going to take both... pay and scope. But scope without significantly restorative pay increases is not enough to do it by itself.
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1.) Do you think it's a fair comparison to use SWA pilots seniority from the integrated seniority list? I understand that they just got a big bump from the SLI, but are they able to exercise that increased seniority right now?
2.) Do you you thinks it's wise to base upgrade time based on the company's projected 2.1% growth? I've never seen a company grow after a merger and all the SWA commercials I see that tout "new service" are routes that Air Tran served for years. If I had a dollar for every time an airline made the unfulfilled promise that a merger would increase synergies and actually see growth because of it, I'd have an extra $10 by now.
Fair questions;
1. The analysis site only contains the integrated lists. You're correct though, the seniority bump will be more of a slow growth. Think of a boil The gain will be realized over a 2 year period.
2. The growth is conservative and the analysis was done by the MC based on orders. The number is actually 3.6 % if you include all options. 2.1% isn't exactly a rocket ship. SWA has already turned their current options into firm deliveries.
Anything could happen really. Maybe GK will sell all of the 717's to DAL.
Position: No Soup for you! No LAX no SLC, go to MD88 in MSP
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
You know what really irks me? When people are surprised when something like LGA happens. It is legal by our PWA, and until guys "Get Religion" wrt to scope, they are always going to be surprised when the company does something they are totally within their contractual bounds to do. Only way to fix it is to fix the PWA, and until we stop looking at pay over scope, nothing will change. Period.
^^^This^^^
With one change:
Scope AND Pay
Let's not make those two items mutually contradictory.
When even Bill "unlimited rjs" Swellbar calls our scope "weak" we have a problem...
Attilla is a joke, whoever designed it is the only ones profiting.
Could it be de-icing numbers? I noticed that as well, especially in the mornings.
I think we have discussed this before, but I believe in Attila. I am not sure how me we spend on it. I hope some very smart people have done their homework and it indeed makes us money. However, from an untrained observer, flying into the busiest airport in the world is very easy. And I can't remember the last time I've been vectored. You fly the route assigned to you, and ATC speeds you up plus or minus 10 knots of so. Seems to me that something is working.
Remember this... Pan Am was the place to be in the 60s, TWA in the 70s, DAL/UAL/AMR in the 80s, No real "leader" in the 90s, and SWA had their turn in the 2000s. This decade is just getting started, and the playing field is pretty level.
Okay, minor revision to your overall point, but it hurts your credibility. I was hired at TWA in 1989. For the first 5 years, I flew 727 F/E with mostly Captains that were hired in the 1960's. I know that group well. The guys who were hired in the mid-1960's did pretty well and upgraded quickly. The guys who were hired in 1969 were furloughed several times and it took them 15-17 years (yes, you heard that right) to get off the engineer panel! The 70's was a time of horrible stagnation at TWA. Your claim that it was "the place to be in the 70's" is not correct.
Okay, minor revision to your overall point, but it hurts your credibility. I was hired at TWA in 1989. For the first 5 years, I flew 727 F/E with mostly Captains that were hired in the 1960's. I know that group well. The guys who were hired in the mid-1960's did pretty well and upgraded quickly. The guys who were hired in 1969 were furloughed several times and it took them 15-17 years (yes, you heard that right) to get off the engineer panel! The 70's was a time of horrible stagnation at TWA. Your claim that it was "the place to be in the 70's" is not correct.
Fine. Thanks for the correction, but I stand by the overall gist of my post, that everybody gets their turn in the barrel. What was that old saying about those that ignore history? But I guess SWAPA has it all figured out.. just like a certain resident of Washington DC has socialism all figured out....
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