Position: Stealthy....normally under the cover of darkness.
Posts: 4,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
You got this all wrong. As you noted, LAX works different. When a 3-day pops up, the senior guy does not get it.
Neither does the junior guy..
Alaska gets it.
For the rest of us, in all seriousness, it works just as you said but I believe you end up with the same result as Jesse was talking about: Days of availability > bucket > seniority.
I know the buckets will be adjusted by category but it might not. Hence, the push back. From my interactions nobody has told me that we'll adjust it different than it is now. Not even a "in March we'll evaluate and redo it per category based on the results of February and adjusted for block hour changes." From the emails I'm getting their is no intention to change it.
I guess it boils down to two questions:
1. How is it fair that there is not a system that gives top X% of regular pilots an SIL worth ALV but yet there is one for reserve?
2. The pay tables have incremental increases from years 1 through 12, but why not just have a flat pay rate from year 1 to 11 and then spike it at 12? There's a reason obviously, so why have a system that says if pilots schedules are identical then it's okay to have one pilot fly 0 and the pilot one number junior fly 50-60 hours?
That's my beef on the construction of the bucket systems if RAW sizes are not adjusted to a rational number per category going forward.
Well, I guess it comes down to the old axiom: where you "stand" is where you "sit." I'm going on 11 years at DAL and still am reserve. Until last month, seniority didn't mean diddly...now it does. Thank God. I think you'll agree in about 7 years.
Problem is that people like you and I are trying to make our case to people who have never had to make a decision between being a crappy line holder or a decently senior reserve guy for 5 years of stagnation.
You're right, I've never had to swallow that sandwich, at least for 5 years. Hundreds of other Delta pilots and I had the cake walk of a 5 year furlough. The last 5 years I've been so insanely senior that I've had the privilege of only working about 85% of weekends and holidays, all on the mighty maddog.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
You're right, I've never had to swallow that sandwich, at least for 5 years. Hundreds of other Delta pilots and I had the cake walk of a 5 year furlough. The last 5 years I've been so insanely senior that I've had the privilege of only working about 85% of weekends and holidays, all on the mighty maddog.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
I think you missed the point when you talk about blame...
This isn't about blame, but about making it right.
Your experience being furloughed should have at the very least made you intimately familiar with the fact that seniority is our currency and it determines everything...
Equipment
Base
Pay
Days Off
Vacation
Quality of Life
Employment Status
Personally I have no problem with our seniority based system because as they always say "son, you'll be senior some day"
But there is a problem. While Delta has indeed hired a few pilots in the last few years, the number of pilots at Delta isn't rising but on the decline. There are fewer captain positions now than just a few years ago. That means the absolute seniority number while it might be going up is not "worth as much as it once was."
In essence what we have is seniority inflation, that is the same or better seniority you had a few years back is worth less today.
If we are going to run a seniority based system then there has to be a commitment to seniority growth. I don't want growth for growth's sake, but I do have trouble with the attitude of some reps and committee members that don't think seniority growth should be their concern at all...
In my opinion there are few pilots that haven't progressed to where they are all on their own accord. Most of us are where we are because of others lending a hand. To me, this industry comes with an implied responsibility to pay it forward and to leave the profession a better place than what we found.
But maybe I have it all wrong ;-)
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 02-02-2012 at 06:54 PM.
Reason: quoting Freebird
You are wise beyond your years johnso29. That is exactly what I was hinting at. No PS passes, just the ability to deviate, but I am not sure if it works on the RJ flights out of MEM. So may be of little help to some guys.
Hey, you and my wife agree I'm wise! Of course she's always calling me a wise ass!
Position: Stealthy....normally under the cover of darkness.
Posts: 4,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Bird
You're right, I've never had to swallow that sandwich, at least for 5 years. Hundreds of other Delta pilots and I had the cake walk of a 5 year furlough. The last 5 years I've been so insanely senior that I've had the privilege of only working about 85% of weekends and holidays, all on the mighty maddog.
I guess I've never really reflected on smooth my career has been to this point. More to the point, the last 5 years have been hard on most of this seniority list. We all knew what we were getting into by coming to Delta. Roughly 1,000 folks were furloughed following 9-11, I don't blame anyone, it's what comes along with this job. you guys volunteered to work here, sorry it hasn't worked out for you like you planned.
^^^^^^ Eggggsssxactly! Spot on. I remember when I came back in 2008 and DAL asked me to monitor a few Indoc classes to get the drill down again. You should have seen the palpable angst in the room when the new hires realized there were other guys sitting there (3 of us to be exact) who were coming back and assuming our seniority on top of them. We'd killed their cat. sheesh. This industry.
^^^^^^ Eggggsssxactly! Spot on. I remember when I came back in 2008 and DAL asked me to monitor a few Indoc classes to get the drill down again. You should have seen the palpable angst in the room when the new hires realized there were other guys sitting there (3 of us to be exact) who were coming back and assuming our seniority on top of them. We'd killed their cat. sheesh. This industry.
Please tell me you walked into class with your flight kit handcuffed to your wrist!
^^^^^^ Eggggsssxactly! Spot on. I remember when I came back in 2008 and DAL asked me to monitor a few Indoc classes to get the drill down again. You should have seen the palpable angst in the room when the new hires realized there were other guys sitting there (3 of us to be exact) who were coming back and assuming our seniority on top of them. We'd killed their cat. sheesh. This industry.
Well they wouldn't have had that reaction if you'd stop wearing that Southwest Airlines lanyard.
It can be very confusing.
Carl
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