Position: Douglas Flight Test & Work Around Engineering Field Representative
Posts: 7,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasatch Phantom
This career is predicated on seniority and all of us knew it when we got hired.
Man-up and quit whining!
Sure & agreed, but that is not the issue. Outsourcing that has resulted in furloughs and what will be 15 years of stagnation at a successful airline is the issue.
Outsourcing is an abrogation of seniority.
IMHO we should be making an issue of this as our jets age and go away without replacement aircraft coming on line. Delta management has bought more than 700 new jets the last decade, the issue is, we don't fly them.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-11-2012 at 02:10 PM.
To quote the dear departed Sam Kinison talking about undisciplined kids ... "I do not condone child abuse, but I understand it." That's how I feel about commuting, I understand it.
Once my first officer barely made a flight after a terrible commute. Told him "I'm surprised you think this job is worth commuting for." He responded, "it sure as heck isn't worth moving for." He had an excellent point.
I agree - I think people >might< consider moving, if not for a poor moving package, no pay for realtor fees in our contract, not mention being underwater on your house. Add in spouse's job (finding a comparable one in this economy not easy), kids in school and taking care of elderly/sick parents. Makes commuting look not that bad.
The system needs to be commuter friendly. Whether someone agrees with commuting or not is irrelevant. The reality of the situation is that Delta has created an airline that is nearly 50/50 WRT commuters/non-commuters. And this trend will continue because Delta continues to close bases, shift airplanes, close categories, etc. This creates commuters. Guys cannot continue to move with each displacement. Houses need to be sold/bought. Spousal jobs need to be transferred. It's not a simple process to just say "Oops, I was displaced again. Well that's ok. We will just quit jobs, yank kids out of their schools, pack up, sell the house, and move to another one." Delta has brought this upon themselves, & I don't give a rats rear end if a guy doesn't like things being tailored to commuters. If he wants to take a hit in pay to help those who are upside down on their reasonable FO houses, then maybe guys can move. Until then, there WILL be commuters at Delta.
BTW, while I quoted you, this post is not directed at you.
Actually, the company doesn't "need" to do anything with respect to making commuting "more friendly." It would be great if they did, however, they aren't obligated to do so. Heck, they have already shown what they are/aren't willing to do by way of hotels for new hires (unheard of in any other industry), relocation benefits (again uncommon), and pay rates for what pilots' responsibilities are. Yep-there WILL be commuters at DAL, however, the company don't care.
IMHO we should be making an issue of this as our jets age and go away without replacement aircraft coming on line. Delta management has bought more than 700 new jets the last decade, the issue is, we don't fly them.
FYI only. Delta has over 120 aircraft on order and another 30 on option that are scheduled to come on line over the next 6 years (737-900 and MD-90). DCI has 1. Delta is about 60 aircraft smaller than at the merger. DCI is over 100 aircraft smaller.
We all agree outsourcing is kicking our butts. I think we will get some help with that problem as regional costs start to climb with the new ft/dt rules. They regularly like to push the envelope with their crews so this will be a major adjustment for them as they have to hire to cover shorter duty periods...or wipe out long sits. Also the new hiring times will mean that those 250 hour guys aren't undercutting the profession anymore. At least they will have to work somewhere for a couple months to cut their teeth.
I know we still have 2 years but both of these factors will raise the regionals price tag and hopefully mean DAL will keep more flying in house. With that and our push for new scope in 2012 contract hopefully we can turn this ship around.
Position: Douglas Flight Test & Work Around Engineering Field Representative
Posts: 7,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplay
FYI only. Delta has over 120 aircraft on order and another 30 on option that are scheduled to come on line over the next 6 years (737-900 and MD-90). DCI has 1. Delta is about 60 aircraft smaller than at the merger. DCI is over 100 aircraft smaller.
Agreed and thanks, though to be an apples to apples comparison we would have to go back to 2000 when the change beagn. To get the post merger "big picture" would we need to include Air France / KLM, Mexicana (since the investment), GOL and Alaska in the mix?
What is your thought on "Outsourcing is an abrogation of seniority" ?
I am aware of Delta's orders and thankful for them. Would be nice if we had 787's to replace the 757's instead of 737's and MD90's. Anyone know how NWA had intended to deploy the 787-8? Just curious.
FYI only. Delta has over 120 aircraft on order and another 30 on option that are scheduled to come on line over the next 6 years (737-900 and MD-90). DCI has 1. Delta is about 60 aircraft smaller than at the merger. DCI is over 100 aircraft smaller.
Since you're comparing reductions between mainline and DCI, it may be helpful to compare orders as well, for more clarity. How many orders for DCI jets?
Not entirely true. A junior line on the 7er in NYC consists of uncommutable 10.5 hour 3 day, 2 leg trans cons. Either that or all Mexico City 2 days which are also early departure and late arrival. I'll take reserve over that any month.
True, but if the Reserve system entices one senior person to move into Reserve, then one low-seniority pilot gets to improve their bidding position, for a line, by one number. His point stands.
Then again, I also see your point: it's all sort of degrees of crap, in the bottom 25% of lines for the NYC 7ER.
Position: Douglas Flight Test & Work Around Engineering Field Representative
Posts: 7,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sink r8
Since you're comparing reductions between mainline and DCI, it may be helpful to compare orders as well, for more clarity. How many orders for DCI jets?
They are at the 255 max, unless they start getting Dash 8 Q 400's.
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