Bar's question wasn't about what you think about scope. The question was whether you had any tidbits on what the MEC thinks about scope. We are forced to ask these questions of people like you who appear to have strong inside knowledge of the MEC, because the MEC is STONE SILENT on scope.
I don't know who Bill heard that from. I wasn't there. But it sounds EXACTLY like the chairman at my base. The former vice chairman (who stepped down due to bidding to NYC) changed his speech depending on the audience. The new vice chairman has been non-committal thus far.
Carl
I don't know what the MEC's opener on scope will be. It should reflect the wishes of the pilots via the contract survey. I have not spoken with a single rep who is willing to give anything up in scope.
The only portion of the survey I have any knowledge of is some idea of where the pay raise numbers came in at. I have also heard that the overall cost per block hour numbers for 2011 especially between DAL and SWA will be surprising and not in our favor with openers being exchanged. We had a large amount of overtime flying in 2011 combined with the 4 percent raise moved the DAL number up quite a bit more then SW. We are not ahead of them but the difference narrowed a lot.
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Roger, that's what the payscale shows. But do we have 12-year guys - 2000 hires - sitting left seat on 777? Disclaimer - I haven't checked the list. If so, I doubt it's very many of them. The stagnation has done more to harm our paychecks than sub-SWA payrates, I think.
Roger, that's what the payscale shows. But do we have 12-year guys - 2000 hires - sitting left seat on 777? Disclaimer - I haven't checked the list. If so, I doubt it's very many of them. The stagnation has done more to harm our paychecks than sub-SWA payrates, I think.
No, but you have guys on 12 year pay sitting in the left seat. Making the top rate at 70 hrs for months on end, effectively making 15K a month.
Position: Douglas Flight Test & Work Around Engineering Field Representative
Posts: 7,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I don't know what the MEC's opener on scope will be. It should reflect the wishes of the pilots via the contract survey. I have not spoken with a single rep who is willing to give anything up in scope.
Me either. My Reps think of some things beyond what we discuss here ... like the Virgin Blue JV. ... We need "inclusive" language that makes these JV's "ours" by default. At least something that gives us automatic production balancing and an equitable position on future growth.
It will be interesting to see the Company's position on scope. Management has been talking about the 100 to 130 seat market. They admit there is a hole, but that they do not like the available options out there. (They should say they love the 717 and would be willing to pay a ransom for it ... just to screw with SWA's lease renewals )
My contention has always been that management bough two different 100 seat types, we just don't fly them. We might can gauge management's desire for a 100 to 130 seat aircraft by watching their moves on the opener for the 76 to 100 seat flying.
Position: Douglas Flight Test & Work Around Engineering Field Representative
Posts: 7,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I have also heard that the overall cost per block hour numbers for 2011 especially between DAL and SWA will be surprising and not in our favor with openers being exchanged. We had a large amount of overtime flying in 2011 combined with the 4 percent raise moved the DAL number up quite a bit more then SW. We are not ahead of them but the difference narrowed a lot.
Sailing,
Isn't that a result of inefficiency due to shrinkage? My Delta experience has not been particularly productive, with 4 full aircraft training courses in < 5 years as a result of repeated displacements. (figuring March bid will be another displacement)
If so, they need to penalize our management; since a Google search of "Delta Air Lines Growth" gets the same number of results as "French Military Victories."
... actually, Air France has scored flying from us ... so maybe this example is even worse a comparison than initially conceptualized.
[QUOTE=sailingfun;1142342]I don't know what the MEC's opener on scope will be. It should reflect the wishes of the pilots via the contract survey. I have not spoken with a single rep who is willing to give anything up in scope.
The only portion of the survey I have any knowledge of is some idea of where the pay raise numbers came in at. I have also heard that the overall cost per block hour numbers for 2011 especially between DAL and SWA will be surprising and not in our favor with openers being exchanged. We had a large amount of overtime flying in 2011 combined with the 4 percent raise moved the DAL number up quite a bit more then SW. We are not ahead of them but the difference narrowed a lot.[/QUOTE
Sailing,
Do you know if the MEC is using the corrected MIT data? There was a SW pilot on here a while ago who pointed out their average numbers were incorrect and even contacted someone at SW who verified the incorrect number of pilots was used in the data. Apparently the data had approximately 1000 too many pilots in it skewing the numbers artificially lower....
I don't know what the MEC's opener on scope will be. It should reflect the wishes of the pilots via the contract survey. I have not spoken with a single rep who is willing to give anything up in scope.
The only portion of the survey I have any knowledge of is some idea of where the pay raise numbers came in at. I have also heard that the overall cost per block hour numbers for 2011 especially between DAL and SWA will be surprising and not in our favor with openers being exchanged. We had a large amount of overtime flying in 2011 combined with the 4 percent raise moved the DAL number up quite a bit more then SW. We are not ahead of them but the difference narrowed a lot.[/QUOTE
Sailing,
Do you know if the MEC is using the corrected MIT data? There was a SW pilot on here a while ago who pointed out their average numbers were incorrect and even contacted someone at SW who verified the incorrect number of pilots was used in the data. Apparently the data had approximately 1000 too many pilots in it skewing the numbers artificially lower....
I believe the MEC uses the data straight from the form 10 reports to the government. They don't use 2nd hand data.
I have also heard that the overall cost per block hour numbers for 2011 especially between DAL and SWA will be surprising and not in our favor with openers being exchanged. We had a large amount of overtime flying in 2011 combined with the 4 percent raise moved the DAL number up quite a bit more then SW. We are not ahead of them but the difference narrowed a lot.
I don't understand. "A large amount of overtime flying" implies that Delta doesn't have enough pilots to support the schedule with everyone flying a normal load. Why would we pilots expect to be penalized for this?
Last edited by FrankCobretti; 02-28-2012 at 04:57 AM.
Reason: Clarity
Same here! If contract 2012 does not restore our pay, I'm out the door as well. In fact, I have some gigs short-listed already... each of them pays more than twice what I'm making now at Delta. There all a lot of opportunities out there. In fact, if the management wants to try furlough to scare us, I say BRING IT ON! In fact, I would be delighted. But I won't give a single concession on scope nor would settle for anything less than restoration of my 40% paycut.
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