We would like to insure we get the flying. When they park the -30's and -40's (100 & 110 seats), we know that the replacement aircraft for the routes they flew as of now WILL be the 70 seaters. It would be dumb of us to allow further erosion of our flying and routes just because an aircraft pays 20% less.
Our DC-9-50's carry one more passenger than the A-319 (I think. If not, it's equal.), but pays $10 less. So, it's not uncommon for unfair payrates to exist at an airline. It's up to us to change those rates. That only happens if we have the airplanes first.
New K Now
I agree with this but don't you guys have scope that limits the number of 70 seaters? I was told that you are up against that number right now so if you shrink how can they get more 70 seaters? Am I wrong on this?
Your scope also prevents 195 at the regionals so it is up to management if you get them or not. Those cannot be flown by others unless you guys let them.
Everyone is getting wrapped up in pay rates. The hourly pay rate is just one part of the total cost of a labor contract. The only way we will get those planes back from DCI is if the cost of our labor contract is competitive with the DCI cost. Since 9/11 DALPA's workers have become much more efficient and our productivity is way up compared to when the DCI contracts were written. As Bar and ACL have pointed out there are several other costs associated with DCI that is making them more expensive and making us more attractive. When the cost of our contract for that segment is a better deal than DCI, then we will have it.
Correct, but tsquare was asking if there really were pilots out there that believed out sourcing was ok. To think that all pilots are against out sourcing is naive at best.
Yeah, tell me about it. Those "me, me, me" guys suck.
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I agree with this but don't you guys have scope that limits the number of 70 seaters? I was told that you are up against that number right now so if you shrink how can they get more 70 seaters? Am I wrong on this?
Your scope also prevents 195 at the regionals so it is up to management if you get them or not. Those cannot be flown by others unless you guys let them.
I think you are right. Or, at least I hope you are; (that we are up against our 70+ sea limit). But, the bar and limit keeps getting changed so much I can't keep up with it. That's the problem. Whatever the case, I would love to see more airplanes, and thus more pilots, on property. Believe me, we will fix the pay.
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Choice is an illusion, between those with power, and those without.
Everyone is getting wrapped up in pay rates. The hourly pay rate is just one part of the total cost of a labor contract. The only way we will get those planes back from DCI is if the cost of our labor contract is competitive with the DCI cost. Since 9/11 DALPA's workers have become much more efficient and our productivity is way up compared to when the DCI contracts were written. As Bar and ACL have pointed out there are several other costs associated with DCI that is making them more expensive and making us more attractive. When the cost of our contract for that segment is a better deal than DCI, then we will have it.
Unless the DCI carriers have pilots willing to work for less than minimum wage, your suggestion would be fair enough. I think we all know....
Unless the DCI carriers have pilots willing to work for less than minimum wage, your suggestion would be fair enough. I think we all know....
That would be true if DCI could get new hires on the large jets. With the mainline career going in the toilet, many RJ pilots said, "No way," to a job at a major making these companies really expensive. The groups are a lot more senior than a few years ago, and those guys are the ones flying the 76 seat jets. Not the 25 y/o with frosted hair. Cripes, they have guys do retirement flights on the 76 seat jet.
It is my understanding that it was a management attempt to restructure airline pay scales by offering the pilots still on the property the same rates they were currently flying, but pay any new hires a lower rate for flying the same aircraft/routes etc.
The current pilots jumped at it since it wasn't their pay being affected. The new hires eventually came to resent the attitude of "I got mine" and started a great deal of internal dissension.
It always goes back to management tactics of divide and conquer
B scale was Bob Crandall's idea at American. It started in the early 80's after deregulation. To say that current pilots jumped at it is not accurate. United guys went on strike to try to stop it. There wasn't one at either Delta or Northwest until both companies threatened bankruptcy. Yes, all three groups eventually allowed it to happen, but neither group "jumped" at the opportunity. The Northwest strike in 98 was mostly about getting rid of the B scale.
B scale was Bob Crandall's idea at American. It started in the early 80's after deregulation. To say that current pilots jumped at it is not accurate. United guys went on strike to try to stop it. There wasn't one at either Delta or Northwest until both companies threatened bankruptcy. Yes, all three groups eventually allowed it to happen, but neither group "jumped" at the opportunity. The Northwest strike in 98 was mostly about getting rid of the B scale.
Who were those men with, ahhh... fortitude. And where did they go?
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ACL65: Told you so ... .
Quote:
ATLANTA (AP) -- A federal appeals court has upheld a preliminary injunction barring Delta Air Lines Inc., the world's biggest airline operator, from terminating a regional flying contract with Mesa Air Group Inc. subsidiary Freedom Airlines.
Phoenix-based Mesa had said that the termination of the contract, if successful, would cripple its airline.
Mesa said last year that the contract amounted to $20 million in monthly revenue for the parent company, or about 20 percent of its total sales for 2007.
Mesa won a preliminary court injunction from the federal district court in Atlanta to block the contract termination, and the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, also in Atlanta, affirmed that decision Wednesday.
The injunction was a very strong indicator and now Mesa has won, again, in the Appellate jurisdiction. Tell your sis to watch out for old trial guys with worn out brief bags, we're smarter than we look.
This is bad news for Delta's unilateral ability to restructure DCI and bad news for us as it adds pressure to work out 2 for 1 deals and other agreements which give Delta flying away to achieve DCI changes by mutual agreement with the vendors.
Mesa stick might be worth a day trade tomorrow, although this is just arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. RJET netted 64% last week. The savy computer traders will surely jump on this tidbit in the morning. The deal will be that the stock is low low to begin with. Already up 30% in after hours trading.
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