Doug Masters

disregard....

JobHopper

I can tell you exactly why: to a small degree, the nightime schedules; to a much larger degree, their retirement.

None of us salivate at the thought of flying all night. Pre 9/11, that's all FX did. Post 9/11, thanks to their US Mail contract, they do tons of banker's hours flying. Having spent a number of years in a FX crashpad in MEM, I can speak with some authority on that.

FX has always paid more than the majors but their retirement plan wasn't as lucrative. Pre-9/11 (more accurately, pre-BK) you could have a very good living at the majors and a great retirement, courtesy of the airline. Today, all of us are essentially on our own to make our retirements work. The playing field has been leveled. Quite simply, in today's airline world, it all boils down to income and lifestyle.

My 5-year, 757/FO-on-reserve FX roommate made more than I did as a 12+ year DC-9 captain. He also did a fair amount of the late night stuff.

I agree with the last sentence. Pending the outcome of this contract, I think a lot of junior guys will look to bail. The real question is: Do they wait?

upndsky

The problem with this industry is its cyclical nature. Right now, UPS/FDX are considered at the top, but there was a time when DHL paid their pilots better than those two.

I've flown with several here who started at UPS or went there during a furlough and to come back. At the time, it looked like the right decision. Do they regret it now? Some yes, because they'd be further ahead financially. Some no, because the type of flying and QOL.

For the last 10 years or so, Southwest has enjoyed that same exulted status but I believe that their day in the sun is waning. Ten years from now, we'll probably talk about JetBlue in the same way we talk about Southwest today.

I also know of pilots who were hired here and then jumped ship to go to UA or AA. At the time, those were the companies to be at. However, almost every one of them would be have been better off (financially and seniority wise) if they had stayed at DAL.

I'm glad to be at DAL. Of the legacies remaining, I have the highest hopes that our company will emerge the best and the strongest. That doesn't mean I think things are perfect. Far from it. But looking at where things are at and the way things are trending, DAL is the place for me.

rvr350

I know of a few that are thinking of bailing to either FDX/UPS or Emirates or Asia contract flying. It seems the more mgmt brags about how great our pilot group is, i have the warm and fuzzy feeling they're just sharpening the knives and see how much blood they can wring out of us.

This company is not the same as pre-BK, where employees feel the need to attach to the company and help it grow. It's evident in our customer service, and in how we treat our colleagues. And it will show up in our contract negotiations. Democracy will be at its best, the majority of the pilot group will vote in a TA, whereas the minority will have no say. Let's hope the majority of us vote to improve on SCOPE first!

nwaf16dude

Agree completely. I've just grown to be extremely cynical about the motives and/or effectiveness of surveys. I'll eventually get around to doing it, but I expect whoever is responsible for it will massage the results to prove the point he intended to prove all along, no matter what we write in the free text spaces.

JobHopper

Apparently, those jobs are fairly easy to get. Had a Colgan jumpseater a short time ago who said "lots" of regional FOs are doing exactly that. It takes a special sort of person who can live with that type of job (and most of us are not that person), but if you are, it could really pay off while you wait for things to sort themselves out stateside.

The biggest problem those guys will face is the attitude adjustment necessary to leave a high-paying foreign contract to come back to probation wages.

Delta1067

Who wants to fly night cargo for an entire career? I have a few good friends at FedEx and they HATE it. They love the paycheck and stability but absolutely hate the job. A career of night flying subtracts many years off of a pilots life. They can have it. I think Deltas flying is far superior to what FedEx has to offer. To each their own.

Bucking Bar

Yeah, because flying for Delta we don't get back to back red eyes or backside of the clock flying.

My father retired from Fed Ex. There is enough diversity to their operation that you get what you bid. Being junior isn't great shakes anywhere, but at least at FedEx they have not outsourced so much that any of their pilots have enjoyed being junior for more than ten years.

Bucking Bar

Understand the disconnect between our flight operations management and the network & marketing management that dictate what flying we perform.

Our flight operations management is highly motivated and enthusiastic about the work we perform. They desire happy employees and want the highest quality work from those employees in exchange. They support our operation and give 110%. I like working for them and am happy to go the extra mile for our airline and our customers. Together, we think we make a difference. We are both prostrate to marketing and network management.

Marketing and Network run the "brand." They decide which division or partner will create their productive capacity. Their decisions are driven by revenue and cost. They don't particularly care if it is a Delta 747 or an Air France A380. Neither do they care whether it is a 757, or a NextGen CRJ. None are old school Delta. None have the nostalgic sensibilities that cloud our judgement. Their considerations are mathematical, pure and simple.

Delta's flight operations management has more in common with Comair's flight operations management than they do the network and revenue men. As a labor group, we have failed to realize our commonality with the Comair pilots, who saw their flying outsourced and diversified until they were a shadow of their former selves.

That's why I'm not particularly excited about old-gen tech aircraft for mainline pilots. I know what it takes to win the beauty contest with revenue and network management ... we need efficient, current generation equipment to compete.

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In contrast, both FedEx and Emirates are vertically connected throughout their corporations. Their senior management sees a real value to performing their own work to ensure the quality of their product. They perceive this quality as essential to their success. They are enthusiastic, top to bottom, in their own operation.

Contrast this to Delta network management who described Go Jets as "the best... ." For reference, GoJets is a division of Trans States, which was fired as a DCI carrier by Leo Mullin's team for sub par performance.

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New hires would be foolish to come to a division of a Company where management outsources labor on a pure economic basis. They will only be valued as the commodity they are. Their loyalty and enthusiasm for their employer will be unrequited. They would be much better off with an employer who is "in it to win it."

In 2007 Delta did reconnect to the core values to power their way out of bankruptcy. However shareholders demanded a deal and the deal they got was entirely rational from an economic perspective. Delta moved further towards becoming a brand management company ... . Try to find a pair of Levi's made in San Francisco ... the only reason the odds are better for finding a Delta pilot flying Delta passengers is because of ALPA and because of scope.

forgot to bid

Before I digest Bar's post, even the Feds on the line are openly talking about 717s to DAL but saying the announcement was supposed to have been made earlier this week.

Gotta go.