Fair enough, I sometimes forget I am writing on an anonymous web board since I am sure everybody knows who I am anyway. You are right that DAL is not the be-all, end-all, and I am not saying that. What I AM saying is that I would rather work for the worst American carrier anyday than the best middle east one. You confirm that with your buddies' story. (curious.. what kind of schedule does he have at Korean.. does he get holidays off.. can he bid for his kids' birthdays? or does his schedule just get published like Cathay?) I know others that have left there. (M R Rats) And while lateral moves might be possible, you have zero protection when/if those foreign carriers want to fire you. Not the kind of job "security" I would want, but to each his own..
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I make $7700/month flying a widebody jet at Delta. After taxes and all deductions, that amount drops to around $5500 per month. .
How do you figure that? If you are a widebody FO I am guessing you have at least 7 or 8 years of longevity. Delta 7-8 year widebody FO pay is around $145 - $150 per hour. Even if you are reserve making only guarantee that is over $10,000 per month. And thats not even counting international override. How are you a widebody FO making only $7700 per month?
How do you figure that? If you are a widebody FO I am guessing you have at least 7 or 8 years of longevity. Delta 7-8 year widebody FO pay is around $145 - $150 per hour. Even if you are reserve making only guarantee that is over $10,000 per month. And thats not even counting international override. How are you a widebody FO making only $7700 per month?
I just looked at APC's payscales for 757/767 and top FO pay at the 12th year is $129 an hour. Some of the lines in ATL were around 65 hours this month, with few international trips, so no International override. I think you are mistaken. The cut in capacity has resulted in another pay cut for Delta pilots, with very little opentime available too to pick up or to swap trips for more pay. Are you sure you are a 7ER B?
How do you figure that? If you are a widebody FO I am guessing you have at least 7 or 8 years of longevity. Delta 7-8 year widebody FO pay is around $145 - $150 per hour. Even if you are reserve making only guarantee that is over $10,000 per month. And thats not even counting international override. How are you a widebody FO making only $7700 per month?
I don't know his situation but the are second year pilots in NYC on the ER. That's $6,488/month before taxes.
Fair enough, I sometimes forget I am writing on an anonymous web board since I am sure everybody knows who I am anyway. You are right that DAL is not the be-all, end-all, and I am not saying that. What I AM saying is that I would rather work for the worst American carrier anyday than the best middle east one. You confirm that with your buddies' story. (curious.. what kind of schedule does he have at Korean.. does he get holidays off.. can he bid for his kids' birthdays? or does his schedule just get published like Cathay?) I know others that have left there. (M R Rats) And while lateral moves might be possible, you have zero protection when/if those foreign carriers want to fire you. Not the kind of job "security" I would want, but to each his own..
As pilots, we are trained and paid to manage risk. Thus, for the most part we are very risk adverse people.
Exhibit one. Look at how DAL and DALPA sells information to us. Remember lthe letter 51 "lounge visits." Those were tailored to that part of our traits in that sense. Comments like "what else are you qualified to do if this company goes chapter 7, you have only flown airplanes your whole adult life." "What are you going to do if the doors close?"
And the all time classic comment from a manager in a shirt and tie, no joke, "The next words out of your mouth will be do you want fries with that if you vote this down." Smart as it worked.
Point being, we all need a plan B whether itr is KAL, another career, business on the side, whatever. As much as people like you T believe that there is job protection here, there is not. it is fleeting and a job loss can come in any form.
Wear your sunglasses in the cocpit, at home on the lake, etc? Incidents of a disease rarely seen are skyrocketing in pilots. Melanoma of the retina.
Over flying MSP, any number of speed bumps out there can derail us.
Have a plan B. Cultivate options. Having them allows one to live their life without their tail between their legs. Oh, and finally, don't believe the guy in a tie at lounge shows. Pilots are desired in the corporate world. Ask anyone that was furloughed and went there if you can find one. Most never returned. You won't have to make fries.
I just looked at APC's payscales for 757/767 and top FO pay at the 12th year is $129 an hour. Some of the lines in ATL were around 65 hours this month, with few international trips, so no International override. I think you are mistaken. The cut in capacity has resulted in another pay cut for Delta pilots, with very little opentime available too to pick up or to swap trips for more pay. Are you sure you are a 7ER B?
75/76 is a narrow / wide body category. You end up flying the narrow more than you do the wide so when he said he was a wide body FO I didn't think he was claiming to be a 7ERB. I have averaged over $7300 per month so far this year as a 7ERB and I am not even on 3rd year pay yet. When I hit 3rd year pay my guarantee alone will be almost $7700 and no, I don't go around claiming to be a "widebody FO" as a 7ERB since I mostly fly the 757. A true widebody pilot is on the 777/747/330/76ER.
As pilots, we are trained and paid to manage risk. Thus, for the most part we are very risk adverse people.
Exhibit one. Look at how DAL and DALPA sells information to us. Remember lthe letter 51 "lounge visits." Those were tailored to that part of our traits in that sense. Comments like "what else are you qualified to do if this company goes chapter 7, you have only flown airplanes your whole adult life." "What are you going to do if the doors close?"
And the all time classic comment from a manager in a shirt and tie, no joke, "The next words out of your mouth will be do you want fries with that if you vote this down." Smart as it worked.
Point being, we all need a plan B whether itr is KAL, another career, business on the side, whatever. As much as people like you T believe that there is job protection here, there is not. it is fleeting and a job loss can come in any form.
Wear your sunglasses in the cocpit, at home on the lake, etc? Incidents of a disease rarely seen are skyrocketing in pilots. Melanoma of the retina.
Over flying MSP, any number of speed bumps out there can derail us.
Have a plan B. Cultivate options. Having them allows one to live their life without their tail between their legs. Oh, and finally, don't believe the guy in a tie at lounge shows. Pilots are desired in the corporate world. Ask anyone that was furloughed and went there if you can find one. Most never returned. You won't have to make fries.
I had a plan B from day one, and it didn't include airplanes. The other part is not having any significant debt. I am not worried about making fries for a living.
How do you figure that? If you are a widebody FO I am guessing you have at least 7 or 8 years of longevity. Delta 7-8 year widebody FO pay is around $145 - $150 per hour. Even if you are reserve making only guarantee that is over $10,000 per month. And thats not even counting international override. How are you a widebody FO making only $7700 per month?
OK... I'm a 7ER pilot. It is a widebody category, eventhough we fly a mix of 757s and 767s. I don't make anywhere close to $145 an hour! Check APC rates for 757/767. I make approx $115 an hr. On reserve, I make a minimum guarantee of 70hrs. Some months I make less than that on a regular reduced line. To average it out, I used $110/hr. (If I use $115, it just increases the pre-tax income by just $300). So here we go:
Hourly pay: 110
Reserve guarantee: 70
Monthly salary before taxes and deductions: 70x110= $7700 ($92,400/yr)
After medical, dental, dues, taxes: Take home around $5500 a month
($66,000/yr)
75/76 is a narrow / wide body category. You end up flying the narrow more than you do the wide so when he said he was a wide body FO I didn't think he was claiming to be a 7ERB. I have averaged over $7300 per month so far this year as a 7ERB and I am not even on 3rd year pay yet. When I hit 3rd year pay my guarantee alone will be almost $7700 and no, I don't go around claiming to be a "widebody FO" as a 7ERB since I mostly fly the 757. A true widebody pilot is on the 777/747/330/76ER.
I just said I fly widebody jets for Delta and make $7700/month. I fly half ER and half 757. Last I checked, I am paid widebody 7ER rates to fly both the 7ER and the 757, as negotiated by our union. My point is, the pay is dismal even compared to pilots in many thrid world countries. Have you looked at some of the interntional pay-scales of Asian LCCs lately? Much higher than DAL pay.
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