Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-03-2011, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
Carl
12-03-2011, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Fly4hire
Best explanation I have seen yet. Nice job.
Carl
12-03-2011, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
LOA 16 which is the original JF language is a few years old.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
MOU 14 was done June of 2010 and the reps did not vote on it.
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
The only two people that signed it where the SVP of Flt Ops and the Chair of the NC.
Carl
12-03-2011, 04:10 PM
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Posts: 2,322
Side Question:
Do we still have to submit paperwork to receive per diem for recurrent? What's the process to get it?
Do we still have to submit paperwork to receive per diem for recurrent? What's the process to get it?
12-03-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by capncrunch
Side Question:
Do we still have to submit paperwork to receive per diem for recurrent? What's the process to get it?
Do we still have to submit paperwork to receive per diem for recurrent? What's the process to get it?
The per diem is going to be automatic but I am not sure when it actually starts. If you have training soon check the recent LOAs or post your question on the DALPA training Forum.
Scoop
12-03-2011, 05:14 PM
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DCI carrier Mercury?!?!
I know I know.....but the press sucks!
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
12-03-2011, 05:49 PM
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 845
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
To make this relevant, I've made one landing in a real MD-88 in 50 days but I am primed and ready for any catastrophe, RTO, OEI, GPWS or windshear event or even a simple go-around thanks to recurrent. 
What's nice is they put the ATL guys in the 90 sim for recurrent, that sim is niiiiice. But I must say the crew resources emailers are fascinating to read.
What's nice is they put the ATL guys in the 90 sim for recurrent, that sim is niiiiice. But I must say the crew resources emailers are fascinating to read.I would agree that the 90 sim is awesome.. when it works. Did CQ last month and day one (D period) took 6 hours with 5 full-scale sim crashes before we called it quits. Funny thing was the DGS guy said' "This used to be the best sim we had until we started using it all the time.". I now have a love/hate relationship with the thing versus the hate/hate relationship I developed with #5 during initial. Progress I suppose.
12-03-2011, 06:56 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Just to make the math easy, let's say that before Alitalia joins the alliance, Delta has 500 units of flying and AF/KLM have 500 units. Delta is in a production balance of 50%, 500 divided by 1000. Now add Alitalia which has 100 units of flying. Delta now has 500 units of a 1100 point total. Immediately Delta has 45% of the balance, even though they haven't changed anything.
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
Agree with everything you wrote in a perfect World. But, thus far AF/KLM have been expanding while Delta is pulling capacity. AF/KLM have 76 large widebodies coming, we have none. Many people sense that management is not adhering to the agreement in good faith. 12 months is sufficient time for seasonal flying adjustments. 36 months is too long IMHO.
As you state, these things do not change overnight. If current trends continue, what assurance do we have that another scope concession will not be the fix? How do we know that this fix will not be a surprise MOU, or grievance settlement that we learn about after our bargaining agent has executed the deal?
... and no Carl, the DPA is not the answer. DPA can't be trusted until they back down from the tired justifications for last decade's outsourcing.
12-03-2011, 07:00 PM
No longer cares
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Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Just to make the math easy, let's say that before Alitalia joins the alliance, Delta has 500 units of flying and AF/KLM have 500 units. Delta is in a production balance of 50%, 500 divided by 1000. Now add Alitalia which has 100 units of flying. Delta now has 500 units of a 1100 point total. Immediately Delta has 45% of the balance, even though they haven't changed anything.
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
And no matter how you slice it, a 3 year balance timing is too long, especially if it can be reset every other month. Those kinds of things can be tweaked.. shuffled around by these management teams to whipsaw us against one another. No... I really don't like what I am hearing here..
12-03-2011, 07:14 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by sinca3
I know I know.....but the press sucks!
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Their life story would make a heck of a movie.
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