alvrb211

Na...... it just proves that, unlike you, all those truly world class corporations are pro outsourcing!
The bottom line is, any and all issues with the B787 are BOEING issues!

No need. I'm still saying outsourcing isn't the problem. "If" there are outsourcing issues, it's down to Boeing's lack of efficient Kanban systems.

Outsourcing does have its challenges. But, do you know any major manufacturing corporations that don't outsource?

Do you foresee Boeing's 15,000+ approved vendor list shrinking in future with more production returning to Seattle? It will NEVER happen. Their vendor list will continue to increase as will their outsourcing.


Seriously dude, what kinda car do you drive?





Al

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The BOD don't fool me!

FastDEW

Vendor is a part supplier. Like a rivet or a panel or a bolt or a window, etc, etc, etc.....

The OUTSOURCING we are talking about here is more functions such as installing parts from vendors. This means that the vendor is getting the parts and trying to assemble them and then send a larger sub-assembly to Boeing. It isn't working. See the difference? No, of course you don't.

This happens in many industries. This is when the supplier says "Yes, we can do that" and signs a contract and then guess what "No they can't do that". This happens often. Auto industry pulls work away from suppliers because they fail to get the "outsourced" job done. The Aircraft industry and others have the same problem.

But at the end of the day, this thread is getting stale. After the 787 fly's you will say, "See, outsourcing worked!!!!" while the rest of the world will be saying "Boeing would have had the thing up 2 years ago but for the outsourcing......."

alvrb211

A vendor is NOT merely a part supplier!
Vendors provide a variety of goods and services!
Sure, some vendors do supply only parts. Others supply finished inventory. Vendors also provide additional services like financing. Think of Rolls Royce financing B787's for NorthWest while they were operating under Chapter 11. Rolls did this in return for an engine order.

Part of the problem is Boeing's lack of quality control. Boeing DO NOT require their suppliers to have AS9100 certification. This means that their suppliers can avoid implementing Airline Quality Management System Certification (AQMS). In addition, Boeing does not have a sufficient Kanban system in place. Of course, this is to say nothing of Boeing's problems in-house in Seattle. I've said all along, this is Boeing's mess!

Don't even go there with the auto industry. Outsourcing is a huge success in the auto industry and will continue to increase. That's good for the US as nobody want's American cars and everyone's buying Toyota's.
If they did, it would only be counterfactual reasoning!
You have to outsource to retain competitive advantage especially in an oligopolistic industry. The B787 will be a success once Boeing fix their operation.

You're right, the thread is dead. Don't take my word for all this though,
Dr. John G. Wensveen PhD, of The International Air Transportation Association (IATA), covers these subjects in detail in his publications.
Of course, you have to be open to learning from someone in the know!

Good day.

__________________
The BOD don't fool me!

Carl Spackler

I guarantee it. Boeing came very close to losing the company on this one. They will continue to increase the amount of critical work done in-house.

Mostly a golf cart. But also a Jaguar XK-8.

Carl

__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.

Carl Spackler

You are exactly correct.

You're also right that the thread is a bit stale. No minds will be changed here.

Carl

__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.

FastDEW

NICE!!!!!!

Nosmo King

Harley Davidson. No Outsourced work.

alvrb211

I've always liked the styling of Jaguars. Sharp looking cars!

They of course do a lot of outsourcing. I know they outsource the paintwork to Rolls Royce Motor Cars along with Aston Martin. They also did a lot of outsourcing to Ford. It's that darn outsourcing again.

Also, Jaguar are owned by an Indian firm. There's a thought huh?

Not to worry, when you need parts from Mumbai, just use Fedex!

What make is your golf cart? Did they ship it from India along with the car?

You had me going for a while Carl. Yet here you are, supporting outsourcing and globalization along with the masses!





AL

__________________
The BOD don't fool me!

Carl Spackler

I told you what I drive for a reason. I knew that your retort would be that I was supporting outsourcing. But here's what you really need to know: the XK-8 is a beautiful piece of junk. It breaks all the time. The poor quality is yet another example of ignorant management teams that think outsourcing is the cure to all problems.

Boeing will continue the process of bringing critical work back in house. Absolutely guaranteed. You and your college professor can continue to sing the praises of outsourcing - despite today's reality proving otherwise.

Carl

__________________
I'm an airline pilot - so I got that goin for me....which is nice.

alvrb211

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler I told you what I drive for a reason. I knew that your retort would be that I was supporting outsourcing. But here's what you really need to know: the XK-8 is a beautiful piece of junk. It breaks all the time. The poor quality is yet another example of ignorant management teams that think outsourcing is the cure to all problems.

lets see...........

Toyota= Major outsourcer worldwide = World's most efficient auto maker!
That's a function of defects per one hundred cars produced by the way!

Jaguar = relatively miniscule outsourcer=Troubled brand.

Good correlation between poor quality and outsourcing Carl. NOT!!!!!!!

Good luck finding a non outsourcing automaker to replace the XK-8

Sorry, I don't know any independent custom builders anywhere in the world since Aston Martin began outsourcing years ago.

Guess everyone sees a need to outsource. Except you!

I've been very happy with several BMW's over the years. They do a lot of outsourcing! I think it's fair to say BMW is a respected brand no?


AL

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The BOD don't fool me!