Woodbourne

It is my understanding that Bedford will not take a controlling interest if a Seniority List integration is pursued by RH/F9, thereby side-stepping the IBT contract. Is this information not correct and if so is everyone here pontificating for no apparent reason?

I am at F9 and do not want to go down Whipsaw Road myself; however, it seems as though Bedford currently has all three airlines by the balls.

Nevets

Actually, it does specify Allegheny/Mohawk, if they are not represented by the same union. Also, Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs do NOT specify DOH. And lastly, it does not require arbitration unless the employee groups cannot agree on integration during their negotiations. Here is the actual law:

SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION. (a) LABOR INTEGRATION- With
respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air
carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are
subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3
and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil
Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at
59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of
the covered air carriers; except that--
(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the
combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers,
that collective bargaining agent's internal policies regarding
integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the
requirements of this section; and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement
that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving
covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected
by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered
by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the
protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-
Mohawk provisions.
(b) DEFINITIONS- In this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) AIR CARRIER- The term `air carrier' means an air carrier
that holds a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49,
United States Code.
(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER- The term `covered air carrier'
means an air carrier that is involved in a covered transaction.
(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE- The term `covered employee' means
an employee who--
(A) is not a temporary employee; and
(B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the
Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.).
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction'
means--
(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air
carriers into a single air carrier; and which
(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--
(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as
defined in section 101 of title 11, United States
Code) of an air carrier; or
(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of
the air carrier.
(c) APPLICATION- This section shall not apply to any covered
transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the
date of enactment of this Act.
(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION- This section shall become
effective on the date of enactment of this Act and shall continue in
effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.

hockeypilot44

It must be great to be a furloughed Frontier pilot. You think that someday you will get called back to Frontier....instead you get called back to the bottom of Republic's list. It's ok though because he/she still has a job.

Fly4hire

Moderator:

Can we please move this to the Regional section, or better yet Pond Scum if Mesa and RAH have their own section?

JeremiahWeed

Just read an interesting post on our site concerning this issue. Bedford has told us this exact thing. It's supposedly due to training cost but seems like there is something else brewing.

I'm not sure if all of you F9ers are aware of Bedford stating that your airline would be more profitable if half of the Airbuses were turned in and those same routes flown with 190's. This leads to an interesting predicament should you cave on scope. If you guys cave on scope, this does lend some credibility to his reason for wanting to keep the certs. seperate for training costs.

If the certs are kept seperate you'd have no place on our list and no protection so it would be cheaper for him to furlough rather than retrain you. If you guys don't cave on scope and force integration, you'd have to be retrained and most likely into the 190. Unless he sells 50% at which point, I'd still fight for integration as we certainly will be.

From a business standpoint, he'd rather furlough half of your group than retrain you on the 190.

Hope you guys/gals make the right decision. We are certainly going to do what ever we can to force integration but if you cave on scope, there won't be much we can do for you if he can get around our CBA by selling 50%.

Have also heard some rumors that some of your pilots see some good in caving on scope. For the life of me, I can't see any good coming from it.

Good luck.

dojetdriver

With the current crew cost of the 190's, is this REALLY a surprise? If the cost went to the current JB rates, what do you think would happen to those costs?

And YES, I'm well aware of the rationalization behind the rates on those airframes.

Woodbourne

I would have to agree with you. The problem, imho, is that our Captains want to keep their seats at all costs. Unfortunately, this usually leads to a short term solution to a permanent problem; ie, scope. We are hoping for a better offer (although highly unlikely) from someone other than Bedford.

dojetdriver

ONLY XJT pilots are allowed to use the word "Reaming" when being forced into a bad situation. Everybody else has to come up with their own clever term.

TheGreatChecko

Beyond this being flame bait...

Doing this would be a stupid business move. Frontier has created one of the few profitable operators in the United States, breaking it apart and piecing it back together would destroy that and jeopardize future profits, so I can't see shareholders being too happy with the results.

Checko

duvie

If you let management turn the pilot groups against each other then they've done their job. Why not set up a website for YX and Republic pilots (whose fates are now inextricably intertwined) and possibly F9 in the future, and examine your respective contracts to figure out exactly how you can work together to get a good contract. Don't sell scope and pay out just to keep your seats/domiciles. Look what is happening at the majors because of that very problem. You need unity.

PS. ToiletDuck, your post was extensive but mostly full of hot air. You're self proclaimed dedication to RAH is exasperating. You've only been a 121 pilot for two years and you work for a company whose FOs top out at $40/hour! How can you even begin to compare what you're "entitled to" as compared with guys who've slogged their way through the regional/commuter days to land a job at their chosen national airline? I'm also a young guy with just over 2 years in the 121 game and I'd be embarrassed to try and explain to any guy/gal at a major or national why we should integrate out lists using the % method.

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