Southwest may make a bid for Frontier
08-05-2009, 04:42 AM
#301
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by drewwrrn125
Basically its a messed situation. Id prefer to see f9 guys get bought out by RAH keep united afloat. And keep F9 guys a job! I understand its all a business stand point but SW needs to stop trying to take over the world by eliminating companies and taking their lively hoods. That is why I will never work there. 8000 Hours and I have to pay for a type rating give me a break.
Oh and BTW im a son of a retired Airways guy
I grew up hating SW!
08-05-2009, 07:18 AM
#302
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by drewwrrn125
Im not sure if this has been posted I just dont have time to read 30 pages of replys. But my feeling if southwest wins the bid.
1. F9 Guys will be liquidated and given some kind of preferential interview. How many will actually get hired is a completly different story.
2. Southwest comes in and holds a Huge market in DEN. Not so good for United who can barely pay the power bills right now. So looks like United closes doors or drastically cuts back operations in DEN, for unable to compete with Southwest. Their canny ability to cause Legacys trouble when their hurting.
If RAH wins bid.
1. F9 will have a job most likely Pay Protected some way. Im not sure how the pilot integration would go but Id have a feeling that there would be some sort of fence for the F9 guys.
2. Keeps SW at bay from extinquising another airline.
I wouldnt be suprised if United Management and RAH are in talks with this right now because of RAH's business ties with United.
Basically its a messed situation. Id prefer to see f9 guys get bought out by RAH keep united afloat. And keep F9 guys a job! I understand its all a business stand point but SW needs to stop trying to take over the world by eliminating companies and taking their lively hoods. That is why I will never work there. 8000 Hours and I have to pay for a type rating give me a break.
Oh and BTW im a son of a retired Airways guy I grew up hating SW!
1. F9 Guys will be liquidated and given some kind of preferential interview. How many will actually get hired is a completly different story.
2. Southwest comes in and holds a Huge market in DEN. Not so good for United who can barely pay the power bills right now. So looks like United closes doors or drastically cuts back operations in DEN, for unable to compete with Southwest. Their canny ability to cause Legacys trouble when their hurting.
If RAH wins bid.
1. F9 will have a job most likely Pay Protected some way. Im not sure how the pilot integration would go but Id have a feeling that there would be some sort of fence for the F9 guys.
2. Keeps SW at bay from extinquising another airline.
I wouldnt be suprised if United Management and RAH are in talks with this right now because of RAH's business ties with United.
Basically its a messed situation. Id prefer to see f9 guys get bought out by RAH keep united afloat. And keep F9 guys a job! I understand its all a business stand point but SW needs to stop trying to take over the world by eliminating companies and taking their lively hoods. That is why I will never work there. 8000 Hours and I have to pay for a type rating give me a break.
Oh and BTW im a son of a retired Airways guy
I grew up hating SW!Listen folks - Be very careful of what you are hearing on this thread (and the others w/regards to the F9/SWA subject). Misinformation is being presented to inflame or to influence with faulty reasoning. Get the facts and don't rely on anyone on APC who has any vested interest or BIAS. Including the Oscar (who could trust him?).
Oscar
08-05-2009, 07:30 AM
#303
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B737/Capt
Posts: 998
Originally Posted by Lifer
Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this country as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character.
In case your wondering--the highlighted portion applies to you
.
Character doesn't apply to you.
In case your wondering--the highlighted portion applies to you
.Character doesn't apply to you.
All the best,
Oscar
08-05-2009, 07:36 AM
#304
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Turning off the spigot....
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by OscartheGrouch
Wow where did you come from? I am not a conspiracy type but all of a sudden you jump into this fray with you first post? Are your speculations on what will happen supposed to have any more relevance than what has previously been discussed on APC? You state that you grew up hating SWA. No bias there or any bias in your speculations I am sure. BTW 1989 - 1800 hours - the 737 type rating was the best investment I have ever made and I feel very fortunate. 2009 - You with 8000 hours - How is that working for you? Are you in a position to disparage those who have invested in a type rating or did daddy help you with your "investments."
Listen folks - Be very careful of what you are hearing on this thread (and the others w/regards to the F9/SWA subject). Misinformation is being presented to inflame or to influence with faulty reasoning. Get the facts and don't rely on anyone on APC who has any vested interest or BIAS. Including the Oscar (who could trust him?).
Oscar
Listen folks - Be very careful of what you are hearing on this thread (and the others w/regards to the F9/SWA subject). Misinformation is being presented to inflame or to influence with faulty reasoning. Get the facts and don't rely on anyone on APC who has any vested interest or BIAS. Including the Oscar (who could trust him?).
Oscar
Oscar you beat me to it....
Last edited by Waldo11; 08-05-2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Oscar beat me to it
08-05-2009, 07:47 AM
#305
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by STILL GROUNDED
Of the many pilots I talk too we will walk before we let BB not have one seniority list. He says he will not take the whole company if we don't agree to it as two separate airlines. Not gonna happen as far as we are concerned. You've heard the term whipsaw. As devious a businessman Brian Bedford can be don't for one minute think he ain't crafting the Biggest Baddest ass whip saw ever. Frankly, we'd rather not have anything to do with it if its going to bust our scope clause. Furthermore, why shouldn't we be able to bid the larger aircraft, news flash we are buying them. Let me put it another way. Why should a F9 pilot who commutes from MKE or CLT or PHL be forced to commute to Denver to fly the big shiny jet when he could hold left seat in his home town? Who's got shiny jet syndrome now?
side note... I completely agree with some sort of fence. No one should loose a seat but when one comes available it should be everyone's to bid regardless of where it is.
side note... I completely agree with some sort of fence. No one should loose a seat but when one comes available it should be everyone's to bid regardless of where it is.
From the FAPA president on 7/21:
"It seems truer than ever, but the only constant is change. Frontier’s negotiation team responded to our ten-day-old counter proposal late Friday afternoon with a surprising twist.
Rather than operating Frontier as a completely separate entity with separate pilot seniority lists, the new plan is to comply with the FAPA CBA (1.G.1) and IBT CBA by integrating the pilot seniority lists - assuming Republic wins the auction. While this is a reversal of Republic’s initial position, integration is a likely outcome in almost all scenarios involving the purchase of Frontier by another carrier so we have been educating ourselves on the integration process and formulating plans for such an eventuality."
08-05-2009, 07:49 AM
#306
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by Waldo11
I got a conspiracy theory for you. Lifer is actually a junior F9 FO attempting to sway folks away from the RAH deal with the threat of ever flying with a guy like that......
Oscar you beat me to it....
Oscar you beat me to it....
08-05-2009, 07:56 AM
#307
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Turning off the spigot....
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by Flex81
You seem pretty confident that the F9 Jr FO's are all for SWA winning. I am a junior FO and I am still on the fence. I think either situation could be good or bad.
08-05-2009, 08:02 AM
#308
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
Originally Posted by LuvJockey
Just out of curiosity, how many of the RAH guys out there think that having F9 as a part of their company will give them a bid for an A320?
The heavy equipment operators certainly aren't hiring, so I'm thinking that there isn't much going on as far as fast upgrades.
Would an F9 acquisition give RAH pilots a means to a more lucrative career by staying within the company? Would seniority integration give senior RAH captains priority for A320 left seats over current F9 pilots?
I dunno, I'm just asking.
The heavy equipment operators certainly aren't hiring, so I'm thinking that there isn't much going on as far as fast upgrades.
Would an F9 acquisition give RAH pilots a means to a more lucrative career by staying within the company? Would seniority integration give senior RAH captains priority for A320 left seats over current F9 pilots?
I dunno, I'm just asking.
Granted I’m just a pilot and management doesn't really care what we think but I haven't heard anyone here that wants to screw any one at F9 or MidEx over and if there are they are definitely the minority. If anything I keep hearing that most are excited to get some more experience to help us all get a contract that looks similar to what the F9 and MidEx guys are working with right now. The union just withdrew their Section 3 (compensation) proposal because of all this stuff. There is hope if we can work together and put our egos and differences aside.
08-05-2009, 08:33 AM
#309
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Lead Guitar
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Lifer
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Your Ignorance is Bliss--Forge onward
" I have not read one single post of yours after the first one where you stated SWA has no union and Frontier is ALPA "
Obviously you have--The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge.
Much of which you don't have.
Your Ignorance is Bliss--Forge onward
" I have not read one single post of yours after the first one where you stated SWA has no union and Frontier is ALPA "
Obviously you have--The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge.
Much of which you don't have
.Duuude........
08-05-2009, 08:36 AM
#310
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Flyin' a desk
Posts: 30
Frontier Airlines supporters to rally in efforts keep brand alive
August 5, 9:23 AM
Employees and other supporters of Denver-based Frontier Airlines are planning a “Save The Animals” rally in downtown Denver to protest a bid by Southwest Airlines to take over the airline and eventually fold the operation into its own. The assets of Frontier, which has been operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for over a year, are up for sale by bankruptcy court and qualified bids have been placed by both Republic Airways Holdings and Southwest Airlines. Republic Airways has stated it intends to continuing operating Frontier Airlines as its own brand, much in the way the carrier currently operates. Southwest Airlines has announced plans to eventually integrate Frontier into Southwest’s operation, selling the fleet of Airbus aircraft, and hiring Frontier’s employees as necessary to support expansion.
Frontier enjoys strong brand loyalty in Denver. The airline’s quirky commercials featuring the much-beloved animals on the tails of company aircraft, upbeat employees, and customer service culture has spawned a sort of “brand cult” among frequent fliers. While grassroots movements to save airlines threatened with mergers are nothing new (both Midwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines having seen such movements during takeover attempts by Air Tran and US Airways, respectively), the effort by Frontier supporters faces a fast-approaching, hard road to fight the takeover opportunity by Southwest. Southwest and Republic have both been determined to be qualified bidders, and binding proposals are due in bankruptcy court August 10, at which point the court will mediate an auction between the two bidders. Details on Southwest’s offer, whether in cash or other instruments, have not been finalized, but the carrier’s cash position puts it in a very strong bargaining position against Republic.
Frontier’s supporters have been active on the web, spawning the website SaveFrontier.org, a Twitter account, and a Facebook page. The rally is planned to take place at the city and county building at 1437 Bannock Street in downtown Denver on Thursday, August 6 at 12 noon.
August 5, 9:23 AM
Employees and other supporters of Denver-based Frontier Airlines are planning a “Save The Animals” rally in downtown Denver to protest a bid by Southwest Airlines to take over the airline and eventually fold the operation into its own. The assets of Frontier, which has been operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for over a year, are up for sale by bankruptcy court and qualified bids have been placed by both Republic Airways Holdings and Southwest Airlines. Republic Airways has stated it intends to continuing operating Frontier Airlines as its own brand, much in the way the carrier currently operates. Southwest Airlines has announced plans to eventually integrate Frontier into Southwest’s operation, selling the fleet of Airbus aircraft, and hiring Frontier’s employees as necessary to support expansion.
Frontier enjoys strong brand loyalty in Denver. The airline’s quirky commercials featuring the much-beloved animals on the tails of company aircraft, upbeat employees, and customer service culture has spawned a sort of “brand cult” among frequent fliers. While grassroots movements to save airlines threatened with mergers are nothing new (both Midwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines having seen such movements during takeover attempts by Air Tran and US Airways, respectively), the effort by Frontier supporters faces a fast-approaching, hard road to fight the takeover opportunity by Southwest. Southwest and Republic have both been determined to be qualified bidders, and binding proposals are due in bankruptcy court August 10, at which point the court will mediate an auction between the two bidders. Details on Southwest’s offer, whether in cash or other instruments, have not been finalized, but the carrier’s cash position puts it in a very strong bargaining position against Republic.
Frontier’s supporters have been active on the web, spawning the website SaveFrontier.org, a Twitter account, and a Facebook page. The rally is planned to take place at the city and county building at 1437 Bannock Street in downtown Denver on Thursday, August 6 at 12 noon.
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