I just read through your contract negotiations website for the first time and I saw that your scope proposal is to have ALL flying at American or anywhere else done by pilots of American (no regionals at all). I thank you for this and I know its going to be tough, but I hope that you can pull it off. I know that eagle would be in peril if that happened, but hopefully most of them could be American pilots overnight if it happened.
Keep it up!
Apparently you didn't read all of it. There is a press release that clearly defined that the APA's position is that all flying for AMR be done by pilots on the APA pilot list, and by that they mean that Eagle should be consolidated into AA. So, why would you claim to have read through the proposals, and then intentionally leave off the definition? Is your posting anything more than intentional flamebait?
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Fly The Contract & Nothing More
"All flying" is the opener. My guess is that the commuter scope exception will remain unchanged in the next contract. Eagle can keep the 25 70 seaters, and can procure another 22 if they want (by virtue of the arbitrators decision, although that is being appealed). But, that's it. No unlimited number of 76 seat 2-class replacement-liners that the company wants. No unlimited outsourcing. No give on scope. ZERO. That's a dead-certain strike issue and has universal support among APA pilots.
The 50 seater is a dead duck economically. That leaves Eagle in a tough spot in the mid-range future unless they can replace the money-pit 37-50 jets with something economical. If oil spikes again, that'll just hasten the demise. What should really happen is for Eagle to return to its roots and fly highly efficient modern turboprops in a true feeder operation, not the mainline replacement scheme that it's become.
Last I checked the average anual load factor at your owned regional was around 70%.
70% of a 70 seat jet is 49 seats. So the need for the extra seats really isn't there. While it may be a good case of monkey see, monkey do, when it comes to buying these 70 seat RJ's... they also will require new financing, while most of your regional fleet is paid for, and they will also require an extra flight attendant on every flight... with all the associated eaxtra costs and benefits... all to carry the same anual average of 49 pax a flight....
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Fly The Contract & Nothing More
There are lots of emotions on all sides of this argument, and that is the problem. AMR is the head of the airline, not the APA. This isnt 1950. This is purely financial. Follow the dollar, and not your heart.
Just as claiming flying that we do that was always ours as now somehow theirs, so would any inclusion of us in THEIR plan. We would paternalistically be told where to stand, how to stand and when to stand.
We are not seen as equals, but as afterthoughts and always have been. Yes, there are some wide-eyed kids here who know little of the past and would happily sell their souls (and parents, brothers and sisters) to the APA from the promise of dreams of bigger, shinier airplanes and glorious wealth and stature, but those who've invested anything meaningful here aren't interested in daddy waving a rattle in front of them anymore.
Most who are senior here prefer the current arraingement to what the APA would surely demand and it certainly looks as though AMR has no interest in any schemes of combining our groups. As stated before it would only be granting control of regional flying to the last place they want it to be.
Most here are not taking the APA's plan personally as it's rooted in the ideals as all the rest of their past philosophies of Eagle, so it's really nothing new. We realize the latest seige on our existance and survival is just business with them and we realize that AMR has been very clear where it's plans lie with regard to this type of flying and prefer that becasuse..............well, it's just business with us too.
Economics have ruled so far, have clearly and undeniable shaped this type of flying to what everyone now obviously sees and many (including myself) believe that is what will ultimately prevail at AMR. Since it is what AMR wants that seems to rule, then Eagle will eventually fall in with all the other regionals operating this type of equipment and it will be back to business as usual.
Yes, there are some wide-eyed kids here who know little of the past and would happily sell their souls (and parents, brothers and sisters) to the APA from the promise of dreams of bigger, shinier airplanes and glorious wealth and stature, but those who've invested anything meaningful here aren't interested in daddy waving a rattle in front of them anymore.
Then there are those who were never able to pass an interview at a major, and they got stuck at a regional for the rest of their life.
It's really sad that you don't even see the irony and hypocrisy in your own accusations of the junior pilots a Eagle.
You lambaste them for wanting to live every pilots dream - have a prestegious job flying a large aircraft, have a large number of days off, and make a ton of money while doing it. You act as if all of these young pilots coming out of college actually aspire to live your life. "I want to go to college for 4 years, amass a huge debt to learn how to fly, then spend the rest of my life flying a small jet (or prop) to small cities for meager pay, crappy work rules, and a small amount of days off. I just can't wait to never see my friends or family!"
Yet here you and your buddies are lobbying non-stop for larger aircraft (and subsequent higher pay) since your so called "career" is stalled in the minor leagues.
Sorry we are not going to just roll over for you so that you can scab away more of our flying. Why don't you throw a few more jabs mainline's way - about how our pay and work rules are going down. Maybe a few more forensic analysis of how AMR just wants to control costs by shifting their flying to those who will work for McDonald's wages and work rules (YOU). All fantastic justification for your "alternative flying lifestyle" all the while ignoring the fact that it is you that are the primary cause of it.
Sooner or later, all of those junior guys that you make fun of will want a real career and are going to put their foot down on the regional's "legacy" pilots that are ruining their chances to make it to a mainline. We'll see who has the last laugh when those junior pilots at Eagle get fed up and pool their votes to take over your MEC.
[quote=Phlying Phallus;672656]Sooner or later, all of those junior guys that you make fun of will want a real career and are going to put their foot down on the regional's "legacy" pilots that are ruining their chances to make it to a mainline. We'll see who has the last laugh when those junior pilots at Eagle get fed up and pool their votes to take over your MEC.[/quote]
Not too track too far off center here, but 'true dat'.
Something has to change at EGL concerning the POS "16 year 'Homer Pugh' CBA" that was put in place back in the mid/late 90's. The 'senior' guys have no one to blame but those who were on property at the time who fostered Homer Pugh the opportunity to command that such a dismal piece of work....Where do you start?? inexcusable.
Like you said, hopefully the 'junior' EGL guys/gals (or those who were not yet on property for the 16yr deal) can right the MEC in a direction that is more prosperous than settling for the same type of CBA mistake.
Then there are those who were never able to pass an interview at a major, and they got stuck at a regional for the rest of their life.
It's really sad that you don't even see the irony and hypocrisy in your own accusations of the junior pilots a Eagle.
You lambaste them for wanting to live every pilots dream - have a prestegious job flying a large aircraft, have a large number of days off, and make a ton of money while doing it. You act as if all of these young pilots coming out of college actually aspire to live your life. "I want to go to college for 4 years, amass a huge debt to learn how to fly, then spend the rest of my life flying a small jet (or prop) to small cities for meager pay, crappy work rules, and a small amount of days off. I just can't wait to never see my friends or family!"
Yet here you and your buddies are lobbying non-stop for larger aircraft (and subsequent higher pay) since your so called "career" is stalled in the minor leagues.
Sorry we are not going to just roll over for you so that you can scab away more of our flying. Why don't you throw a few more jabs mainline's way - about how our pay and work rules are going down. Maybe a few more forensic analysis of how AMR just wants to control costs by shifting their flying to those who will work for McDonald's wages and work rules (YOU). All fantastic justification for your "alternative flying lifestyle" all the while ignoring the fact that it is you that are the primary cause of it.
Sooner or later, all of those junior guys that you make fun of will want a real career and are going to put their foot down on the regional's "legacy" pilots that are ruining their chances to make it to a mainline. We'll see who has the last laugh when those junior pilots at Eagle get fed up and pool their votes to take over your MEC.
There are those that consider flying for a regional as being "stuck" and as somehow failures. There are those that believe that the sun rises and sets in a big airplanes cockpits and those who don't strive for that sun are somehow less worthy.
My comments are fact. Of course, not all our newer pilots feel this way but some do. I see your post about this as attempting to lure others to join your assult on me............in THAT respect, I'll have to give our junior pilots more credit then to be gullibly suckered into such a stupid move. I think most are better then that.
Your making emotionally based assumptions again and..........well, it's leading nowhere. Just because I say we have SOME wide-eyed kids is not an indictment on the entire junior ranks of Eagle as much as you want to make it to be to use for your retaliatory purposes. Another emotionally based assumption is that we ALL are flying "small" jets (statement of our inferiority) to "small" cities (another statement of our inferiority) for "meager pay, crappy work rules for small amount of days off" (again, all statements of our inferiority).
While were at it, lets highlight some more emotionally based assumptions this post reveals;
- That WE are "lobbying NON-STOP" for larger aircraft.
AMR decides, we don't and haven't even talked to them.
- AGAIN, (sigh) me or other senior Eagle pilots careers are "stalled in the minor leagues" (yes, another statement of our inferiority). That we're all "McDonalds" pilots
- *drum roll, please* That now we are apparently SCABS.
- Admission that I (and other "alternative flying pilots") are the cause of your problems, when it was your union that GAVE these aircraft to us. WE had NO SAY, but as usual it is our fault (just like I highlighted several posts ago).
- and finally the fervant hope that our junior pilots will band together and overthrow our current leadership (comprised of pilots ALL accross the seniority ladder) for the best interest of the APA and people like you.
No emotion here, but I have to thank you. I think it's important to overlook the fact that this post has to be the record for one that has the highest number of offensive, demeaning and belittling attacks against a single group of pilots bar none and highlight to all here exactly what it means to be an Eagle pilot existing in the shadows of people such as yourself.
In that spirit, I consider you post to be among the most educational ones ever posted at APC. I think everyone here should give a loud HARUMPH to King Phallus for puting a SCAB like me in his place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sooner or later, all of those junior guys that you make fun of will want a real career and are going to put their foot down on the regional's "legacy" pilots that are ruining their chances to make it to a mainline. We'll see who has the last laugh when those junior pilots at Eagle get fed up and pool their votes to take over your MEC.[/quote]
Not too track too far off center here, but 'true dat'.
Something has to change at EGL concerning the POS "16 year 'Homer Pugh' CBA" that was put in place back in the mid/late 90's. The 'senior' guys have no one to blame but those who were on property at the time who fostered Homer Pugh the opportunity to command that such a dismal piece of work....Where do you start?? inexcusable.
Like you said, hopefully the 'junior' EGL guys/gals (or those who were not yet on property for the 16yr deal) can right the MEC in a direction that is more prosperous than settling for the same type of CBA mistake.
SC
Actually our current contract is just like any other contract now and comes up for Section 6 in 2013. For the record, your claims that 'senior pilots' rolled the red carpet for this individual to rubber stamp this agreement is misguided. A lot of hands were involved and ALPA national was among them.
By the same token, lets blame all the senior AA pilots for introducing the concept of throwing your fellow pilots under the bus with the B-SCALE. Come to think of it...............who's responsible for AA's current contract that many of its own pilots have called "crappy" with all those concessions several years ago ?
I know, I know...............it wasn't our fault, it was the fault of yadda, yadda, yadda.
Amazing how easily those in glass AA houses throw rocks at their neighbors. Of course, we're not considered "neighbors" are we..................um, how about "Mcdonalds workers" or well, let's be honest................just plain SCABS.
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