Isn't it true that the airbus will fly whatever heading it is on when it passes the last fix? Maybe they never programmed a runway in the box, or were given a heading while on the STAR.
Interested to hear the reason for the Wisconsin tour.
I know flightaware isnt completely scientific, but it looks like they never made the turn to the NNW (guessing there's a fix there) and that they continued on that heading for quite some time.
Just like most fms aircraft it will default into heading mode if it passes the last fix on the arrival but we dont know when and if that happened based on this story. There are a number of things that could have happened and to further speculate we'd need more info. Could they have fallen asleep? sure but we just dont know the details yet.
The aim of this bill is to set a minimum level of experience and qualification in order to perform duties as an airline pilot. This bill will prevent the scenario where an inexperienced pilot is hired with low experience, rapidly upgrades to the left seat, then gets paired to fly with another low experience pilot.
The Colgan crash is used as an excused because it was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.
Ultimately, this bill will raise the basic qualifications in order to perform as an airline pilot and as such, will make our skies safer. However, any pilot is capable of deadly mistakes and as such, will not necessarily prevent the Tenerife's.
You should be lucky that you are a pilot here in the US. The standards and qualifications used abroad are sometimes very difficult to attain.
I know we should feel lucky, I wonder how did the pilot and crew of Value Jet or the American Airlines Crew in Cali Colombia feel??? Your response to making pilots safe is a poor one at best. The training departments need better resources and less hammers on the heads of pilots. This HR 3371 will only strengthen the managments positions to fire and hire at will! Safety will not be changed even if we were to hire every chuck yeager out there. Finally, why do all the foreign countries send their pilots here for training? Not because it is cheaper, but because it is the best. What if I had 5000 hours dual given teaching Mary Jane how to fly. Does that make me a better pilot? Be careful congress and others are doing the old bait and switch and pilots are the ones who will get burned in the end!
Or maybe they never put a runway in, & LOST comm before being handed to approach. Or maybe something broke, or maybe they had to go hold.
Speculation is what sparked this stupid thread to begin with.
So you guys do lost comm differently than the rest of the airlines? For some reason I don't remember lost comm having you overly the airport for such a long distance, making loopners in the sky and then landing at the destination. Seems we have some different procedures than you guys <tic>
Let me guess there was a progressive medical emergency in the cabin that had the pilots distracted to the point they missed the airport.
Some kid with a super computer and flight sim hacked the FMS and took the plane on a joyride.....uhm yup thats what I heard happened... one thing I know, it couldnt be pilot error...because someone on APC pm'ed me and told me that when the facts come out we'll all be shocked at what really happened, sadly we'll have too wait for that investigation into that other "succesful landing" first, if only they hadnt been a foot off centerline...we could speed this process up....This thread is almost comical, but did I succesfully sum up the last 300+ posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I have never seen it as an hours issue. It is an aptitude issue. As a LCA with the 300hr professional pilot, some were awesome, some not so much. The ones that had the processor between the ears that was developed enough to realize what they knew and what they didn't did very well. The ones who though 300 hrs was enough, generally needed more IOE.
What needs to be done, is a aptitude based test like Med School does to limit what comes in to the industry. Anyone can fly 99% of the time OK. It is the thinking that saves their bacon that 1% that is what matters. I will take a person who can think and see the situation clearly any day over a guy that is the ace of the base. That is what makes this profession what it is. It is our minds not our hands. The flying is a skill, the thinking is what makes it a profession.
Man, what a great post. So true.
I would only add that these pilots were guys who had done everything right for 30 years or so to get to the level they had achieved. They more than likely were the cream of several crops of thousands of candidates and had been through numerous selection processes. If they made an error, clearly any of us can make an error - particularly when rushed after a long day on the job. Without knowing all the facts I know the only information I need from this incident is to remember to make time, and if I'm tired, make more time and stick with a conservative plan. At the end of the day on my last type ride I knew everyone wanted to go home, yet I requested an extra box pattern before the inbound vector to give the non flying pilot some time to ensure checklists were complete and he was in the loop for the approach. I expected criticism, but got a really positive feedback on the decision during the debrief. It's all about decision making and why not make the decisions easy on yourself? Better chances for a successful outcome.
Quote:
Deleted... This thread blows.
Also true. I'm not going to post on this thread any more.
Last edited by Bucking Bar : 10-22-2009 at 10:10 AM.
If I were the Capt and the rwy wasn't available, then I would have no problem to land on a twy, especially if I could help another human being live or give them a chance.
For all those that have the same mindset as the quote above, and there has been a couple, when your schedule comes in future months....PLEASE post it on here so I don't run the "chance" of being on your plane.
risk 99% to save one person? Now if you were a burning heap, that's a different story, but with the "facts" of this case (so far) of only a sick person....please.
I have never seen it as an hours issue. It is an aptitude issue. As a LCA with the 300hr professional pilot, some were awesome, some not so much.
The ones that had the processor between the ears that was developed enough to realize what they knew and what they didn't did very well. The ones who though 300 hrs was enough, generally needed more IOE.
What needs to be done, is a aptitude based test like Med School does to limit what comes in to the industry. Anyone can fly 99% of the time OK. It is the thinking that saves their bacon that 1% that is what matters. I will take a person who can think and see the situation clearly any day over a guy that is the ace of the base. That is what makes this profession what it is. It is our minds not our hands. The flying is a skill, the thinking is what makes it a profession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Man, what a great post. So true.
I agree, very well put
__________________
Turbine Maule on floats..now thats a "Wet" Dream...
Or maybe they never put a runway in, & LOST comm before being handed to approach. Or maybe something broke, or maybe they had to go hold.
Speculation is what sparked this stupid thread to begin with.
I'm not much into speculation either, but I find it improbable that two alert pilots are going to fly a full state past Minneapolis before deciding to take action. On a side note, is it just me or does it seem like atc is more frequently letting us fly out of range before the hand off?
Just like most fms aircraft it will default into heading mode if it passes the last fix on the arrival but we dont know when and if that happened based on this story. There are a number of things that could have happened and to further speculate we'd need more info. Could they have fallen asleep? sure but we just dont know the details yet.
If you look at the altitude and track... they continued on heading beyond msp and didnt start descending until the turn in WI.
heading and altitude hold...
We all know how sleepy you can get going eastbound and watching that sun dissappear on a long leg, which jives with the reports of "lost contact."
LinkBacks (?)
one thing I know, it couldnt be pilot error...because someone on APC pm'ed me and told me that when the facts come out we'll all be shocked at what really happened, sadly we'll have too wait for that investigation into that other "succesful landing" first, if only they hadnt been a foot off centerline...we could speed this process up....This thread is almost comical, but did I succesfully sum up the last 300+ posts 
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