Don't want to start the "Fees are good/bad" debate.
All I am asking is since fees started at your company, have people been using more carry-ons? If so, has this affected weight and balance calculations ( are the planes "lighter" on paper for example)?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
Don't want to start the "Fees are good/bad" debate.
All I am asking is since fees started at your company, have people been using more carry-ons? If so, has this affected weight and balance calculations ( are the planes "lighter" on paper for example)?
Only on paper… only on paper. Now the overheads are always full. Those bags that don't fit in the overhead have to go into the pits. At the end of the day in the spirit of avoiding bag check charges with an average of 180 passengers per flight on vacation runs the count has gone down from an average of one bag per passenger to about 75 to 100.
A few months back, our carrier has come up with the perfect scheme to fleece our passengers for more dough. A gate check bag disclaimer is on their website. Carryon bags the look suspiciously larger than life are put into the overhead bin tester at the boarding door. If the bag does not fit, then the passenger has to pony up more dough to check the bag onto the jet. From what I’ve witnessed it’s not a pretty sight.
Did a DHD on a European carrier last week, said my carry on bag (flight kit)had to weigh less than 6 kilos, yes 6 kilos! Heck, it weighs almost 4 kilos empty. Ended up having to check it, at a charge to boot. Companies have discovered a cash cow, and now they are milking it. I calmly explained to the agent that their policy was going to cost them a customer, I don't think she got it, or cared one bit.
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Don't want to start the "Fees are good/bad" debate.
All I am asking is since fees started at your company, have people been using more carry-ons? If so, has this affected weight and balance calculations ( are the planes "lighter" on paper for example)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by captjns
Only on paper… only on paper......
I think what Fly was asking was does it affect the overall weight - not the overall customer service aspect!
Yes, Fly, it does affect the weight. Even though the standard weight of a passenger includes their carry-on items - putting their carry on items in a cargo area vs. the overhead bid affects the total weight. Therefore if you bring bags back into the cabin, from the cargo area, your total weight "on paper" goes down! Put them back into the cargo area - it goes up! "on paper"
Used to do this all the time on the SAAB!! because we still used paper!! ;-)
Don't want to start the "Fees are good/bad" debate.
All I am asking is since fees started at your company, have people been using more carry-ons? If so, has this affected weight and balance calculations ( are the planes "lighter" on paper for example)?
I work for a carrier who before a merger did not charge or bags. After the merger, the decision was made to charge for bags. And as such, the number of carry-ons increased.
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
One last thing. My CA and I were discussing how bags have increased in weight and size since the invention of roller boards. Back in the day, passengers and flight crew carried their bag(s). I guarantee you that if people today had to physically carry what they packed, the size and weight of those bags would dramatically reduce.
If I could weigh my MD-11, I'd be lucky to be within 5,000 lbs of the stated weight on the paperwork. Of course, the first issue would be the 240 lbs pilot weight (including brainbag).
I've seen the pay for the last minute checked bag at gate. Especially not pretty if the bag would fit, but there is no more space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
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I think what Fly was asking was does it affect the overall weight - not the overall customer service aspect!
Yes, Fly, it does affect the weight. Even though the standard weight of a passenger includes their carry-on items - putting their carry on items in a cargo area vs. the overhead bid affects the total weight. Therefore if you bring bags back into the cabin, from the cargo area, your total weight "on paper" goes down! Put them back into the cargo area - it goes up! "on paper"
Used to do this all the time on the SAAB!! because we still used paper!! ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
I work for a carrier who before a merger did not charge or bags. After the merger, the decision was made to charge for bags. And as such, the number of carry-ons increased.
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
This is exactly what I was getting at. I was wondering if the policy is leading to significantly heavier ac (real weight) or cg movement. Having had some "interesting" flights in misloaded planes, I am wondering if an unforeseen consequence could be an out of cg or overweight ac.
I imagine a heavy +/- 5000 lbs fairly evenly distributed would not make much of a difference. But I remember a few years ago, the FAA increased standard weights following a turbo prop crash (1900 with aft cg if I recall). In ac which are fairly weight restricted, has anyone noticed the ability to carry additional pax/cargo? And has calculated cg shifted?
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I don't know how anyone would within reason be able to give you the answers to the questions you just asked. Loads and CGs vary from flight to flight. There's no way to predict it because there are so many variables.
The airlines have always used wags ... and these procedures are FAA approved. Until they pull out the scales and weigh every passenger and bag, this will continue to be the norm.
I believe the wags that are used are good enough to keep aircraft within tolerances. Yes, the FAA increased weight standards after B1900 crash. However, had the maintenance errors not occurred, it would not have crashed.
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