I usually don't try and speculate, but in this case I will. I think either they were extremely engaged or fell asleep. I have flown the A320 and with moving maps, selcal from dispatch, etc., I don't know how they could miss the airport by that much. It seems very difficult that they would not have noticed. That said, most of us that have flown for awhile have flown tired. Many of us have nodded off, and it isn't a good feeling to wake up and find you are the only one awake. If this was the case with these guys, it can happen to anyone. I hope this incident keeps the heat on the FAA to establish new flight time limits.
And I hope others wouldn't feel compelled to support me in my negligence simply because we have a common career. It shouldn't make a difference. I'd rather you give it to me like it is.
That's you choice, but I have to ask: Is it because you absolutely KNOW what transpired in that cockpit and have personal knowledge of the crew dynamic, or are you simply parroting the drivel that the media is shoveling?
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSLD
Point is, is that this crew should be receiving support from their peers. Wait for the findings of the investigation and learn from them. Until then, think about this:
As professional pilots, If we don't take care of each other, who will?
Why? for being in non radio contact for more than an hour? For not following SOPs. For not initiating loss comm procedures if that were the case? When and where did the break in the link begin?
It's going to be a hard sell in driving the pay and benefit issues to the general public.
Remember Colgan Air??? the mantra was inexperienced crew??? not following SOPs??? out to lunch.
The difference is that the passengers and crew arrived at their destinations... and alive.
Could you imagine if the crew were flying to KBOS, and overflew Boston over the Atlantic Ocean for 30 minutes with a 100 knot tail wind, and discovered that they needed 40 minutes to get back to Boston with only 35 minutes of fuel until tanks dry?
Fatigue after 19 hours of rest on day 2??? also pretty hard to accept especially with a mid day report.
That's what makes a horse race... you have your opinion, and I have mine.
I think mabye the lesson here is that No matter How much experiance you have, how professional you are, how serious you take you job and safety, it only takes one momentary lapse, and you could make a mistake. We are all human, if all the issues in aviation this year have proven one thing it is this:
It can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere......
That is very true... Two pilots that I used to work with at my old company had an accident last spring. Both pilot were knowledgeable, professional, and good sticks. Fortunately everybody walked away, but the plane was destroyed, jobs were lost, and careers were damaged. When I first heard about the accident, I just couldn't believe those were the guys involved... It was the first time I sincerely considered that accidents and incidents can happen to anyone.
............Point is, is that this crew should be receiving support from their peers. Wait for the findings of the investigation and learn from them. Until then, think about this:
As professional pilots, If we don't take care of each other, who will?
Funny thing is, is that many of those "I won't support you or what you did", end up with egg on their face after the facts come out, or wonder why no one wants to support them when THEY screw up. I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt until I'm 100% sure they don't deserve it. We see a lot of "anti-ALPA" folks who are the first to call ALPA for help when they screw up.
I just hope that their claim of not falling asleep is the truth because if it's not, things will only get worse for them. Also, I hope the F/O had the Company's permission to speak to the media after the incident, because a lot of companies have policies in the company manual that prohibit any media statements by anyone involved in an incident/accident until the investigation is complete.
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If they can't see it coming, they sure won't know what to do when it gets here.
Are you really that curious? OK, in this case if they were indeed having a conversation that kept them NORDO for close to an hour, there are big problems indeed. Most events are understandable, some are not. I can't comprehend a professional pilot that irresponsible. So the other distinct possiblility is that they fell asleep. Unfortunately, this happens. Happens to aviators, truckers, etc. Sometimes physiology takes its toll. Do you honestly believe these guys were having a conversation where they completely lost situational awareness for close to an hour?
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