Just curious and maybe someone here can tell me for sure, but do you have to participate in an NTSB witch-hunt? I would assume that most individual attorneys would advise a criminal client to keep his mouth shut about everything and place the burden on the investigating body. What's the score with NTSB proceedings? It seems that silence in this case (and in most cases these days) may have been the best way to go. Can the fed's revoke your tickets for simply refusing to participate in an NTSB interview? Is there some expectation of due process in a case like this, with or without your input?
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Orange Scooby Snack in Nashville, for Christ's sake!!
Just curious and maybe someone here can tell me for sure, but do you have to participate in an NTSB witch-hunt? I would assume that most individual attorneys would advise a criminal client to keep his mouth shut about everything and place the burden on the investigating body. What's the score with NTSB proceedings? It seems that silence in this case (and in most cases these days) may have been the best way to go. Can the fed's revoke your tickets for simply refusing to participate in an NTSB interview? Is there some expectation of due process in a case like this, with or without your input?
Here's the press release from the Delta MEC regarding NTSB's conduct.
Delta Pilots’ Union Issues Statement on Northwest Flight 188 Investigation
Atlanta—The Delta Master Executive Council, the Delta branch of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), the union that represents the over 12,000 pilots of Delta Air Lines
*, today issued a statement concerning the NTSB investigation into Northwest Flight 188.
"As professional airline pilots, our primary concern is and always will be the safety and well-being of our passengers," said Captain Lee Moak, Delta MEC Chairman. "In any aircraft incident, there is always more to the story than first appears in the press. We do not condone the abandonment of due process that will result from a rush to judgment; instead we implore all interested parties to move with deliberate and unemotional professionalism as the events surrounding this incident are investigated."
On Thursday, October 22, 2009, Air Traffic Control (ATC) lost radio contact with Northwest Flight 188, and Flight 188 subsequently overflew its destination before radio contact was reestablished. The aircraft remained visible to ATC radar at all times. Once radio contact was reestablished, the aircraft returned for a safe landing at its destination. At no time were the passengers, crew or aircraft in danger.
Over the past several years, labor, management, the industry and government agencies have partnered, expending significant amounts of time, money and effort, to develop programs such as Aviation Safety Action Programs (ASAP) and Flight Operational Quality Assurance (FOQA) programs designed to improve the safety of our nation’s aviation system. The core tenet of these programs is the ability of pilots to self disclose without fear of retribution in order to help make the U.S. aviation system the safest in the world.
"To date, all crew statements related to this case have been voluntary. We are disappointed that these voluntary statements are being used without regard for the breach of trust and confidence their use will cause," Captain Moak remarked. "Programs like ASAP and FOQA could be dealt a debilitating blow as pilots question the integrity of these voluntary programs. A rush to judgment by the NTSB will have a direct impact on the future of voluntary safety programs, which are at the very core of the safety structure of the U.S. aviation industry. The continued viability of these programs themselves will be placed at risk. That will, in turn, cause irreparable harm to the safety of our nation’s aviation system."
"The NTSB is an independent federal agency charged with determining the probable cause of transportation accidents and promoting transportation safety. They are not charged with prematurely releasing self-disclosed information to be sensationalized in the press," Captain Moak insisted.
"We will work closely with Delta and federal officials to determine any root causes for last weeks sequence of events," Captain Moak continued, "but in the meantime I strongly encourage all parties not to reach a hasty conclusion. There is a proper venue for this investigation, but we stand firmly behind the crew’s right to due process."
As a member of the SLF club, and the flying public in general, I just wanted to say to all you flight deck crew members that not ALL of the public will think badly of you because of this incident. The mainstream media will probably attempt to make you all look bad because of this incident but anyone with half a brain will see through that and realize this was an isolated incident.
What happened, in my opinion, was unfortunate. (And downright frightening) And the two crew members in question will probably pay for it with their careers. But to make blanket statements about every captain, first officer et al because of such an incident is not only disingenuous but reeks of ignorance.
ASAP does not protect you from an intentional disregard for safety, such as not adhering to KNOWN company policies like using your laptop in the cockpit.
I know it's a huge adjustment- new PBS which means new strategies, and of course the new rules in regards to lineholder and reserve which is the biggest change.... among many others.
Weren't the guys that took off without the flaps on that MD-80 in DTW (NW255 if I remember correctly) talking about merger stuff?
Yes. I think THAT was a heated discussion.
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Originally Posted by FlyJSH
Okay, these guys were using computers. Shame, shame. Yes, they should be punished.
What would you recommend the punishment befitting the infractionfor using computers, which happens to be a direct violation of a company SOP?
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But consider this...
I have jump seated a number of times and seen both CA and FO reading the latest best seller. Had those books been enthralling enough, those crews could have overflown their destination too.
But those crews did not overfly their destinations... did they.
What do you think the punishment should be, by both the FAA and Company, in this case, also, as SOPs, FARs, and trust has been violated?[/quote]
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Also, I have flown with CAs who have read, listened to their Ipods, or other things not related to flying.
.
Do you bring such behaviour to the attention of the captains you fly with? If not why not? If so, what type of response do you receive?
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For those of you who have ever done anything other than fly the plane, I suggest you have no room to condemn. The only difference between this crew and you is they got caught.
Did they, as you aver, really get caught? Or perhaps they were alerted to the fact that by a question as to where the heck are we? And at the end of the day... who, again, as you state, caught them?
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"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
For the record, I hold no rocks.
Bible thumping belongs in one's house of worship, don't you agree?
Please don't pull that card. If I make a mistake, it is because I am human and I am not perfect. Not because I am unprofessional and decide to do something completely stupid such as surf my laptop while flying a multi-million dollar jet with 100 people on board.
I mean heck, those pilots in the past who showed up for work drunk, they made a mistake, right? Should we just let them move on and learn from it?
Dude,
You KNOW they weren't just "surfing" their laptop. They were going over a new bidding process that was implemented for them. You do more damage by distorting what they were doing.
I agree, they screwed up. But, let's keep the facts straight on HOW they screwed up.
New K Now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
Just curious and maybe someone here can tell me for sure, but do you have to participate in an NTSB witch-hunt? I would assume that most individual attorneys would advise a criminal client to keep his mouth shut about everything and place the burden on the investigating body. What's the score with NTSB proceedings? It seems that silence in this case (and in most cases these days) may have been the best way to go. Can the fed's revoke your tickets for simply refusing to participate in an NTSB interview? Is there some expectation of due process in a case like this, with or without your input?
Some refer to the NASA and ASAP report as a get of jail card, which does not prevent the NTSB/FAA from conducting an investigation. With that being said, if some good can come from this, wouldn't you want that crew to cooperate with the authorities? What is your opinion on the matter?
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