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Old 11-01-2009, 12:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If I am not mistaken, Bob Herbst was a TWA pilot that now is at AA. He was great with numbers and a spread sheet. Nice to see him still contributing, good article, I like all pasta.
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If I am not mistaken, Bob Herbst was a TWA pilot that now is at AA. He was great with numbers and a spread sheet. Nice to see him still contributing, good article, I like all pasta.
If you like that, go and check out Airline Analysis
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Luckydawg View Post
If I am not mistaken, Bob Herbst was a TWA pilot that now is at AA. He was great with numbers and a spread sheet. Nice to see him still contributing, good article, I like all pasta.
Close...Bob was an Ozark pilot, then TWA, then AA. There's a slight difference, that in itself!

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Old 11-01-2009, 04:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I got this article passed on to me. Looks like it's written by a pilot (had to take out his picture in uniform) but none the less I think it is very relevant. Thought you all might like to see and comment on it:

Airlines: Some Costs They Can't - And Shouldn't - Cut

by: Robert Herbst October 31, 2009 | Seeking Alpha.com

In the past seven years, while inflation increased by 20%, the average hourly cockpit wage cost for the average passenger fare dropped by 29%.
.
In the last century. we would go on strike if the company wouldn't give us a big enough raise. Now we vote in how big our paycuts will be.

Somehow, we have managed to become our own worst enemies. As long as we accept being manipulated by our executives, articles like this one will continue to be written. We as a group get fired up when people like Mr. Herbst go thru the trouble to point out how easy it would be to pay us what we are worth. But, in the end, somehow it will be forgotten when contract talks come around again. It's very sad.

We'll see what happens in the next round of talks. But, we need to elect union leaders who have a pair.

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Old 11-01-2009, 04:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Copied from Regional forum. Pilot pay is a small part of ticket costs.

Have you guys ever thought of crew costs per passenger.


E170 MKE-MCO 2.5 hrs 85% load

Passengers 65
Crew costs CA$75FO$31 $106 plus 30% benefits equals $137/hr or $342.50 for the flight
Crew cost/passenger $5.30
Ticket cost $100.00
25% pay increase $1.32



E190 same trip

Passengers 85
Crew costs CA$90FO$31 or $121 plus 30% benefits equals $157.30/hr or $393.25 for the flight
Crew cost/passenger $4.62
Ticket costs $100
25% pay increase $1.15


Pilot costs are a small piece of the ticket costs. Is a 25% increase going to drive business away...

NO !!!
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Old 11-01-2009, 05:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by newKnow View Post
In the last century. we would go on strike if the company wouldn't give us a big enough raise. Now we vote in how big our paycuts will be.

Somehow, we have managed to become our own worst enemies. As long as we accept being manipulated by our executives, articles like this one will continue to be written. We as a group get fired up when people like Mr. Herbst go thru the trouble to point out how easy it would be to pay us what we are worth. But, in the end, somehow it will be forgotten when contract talks come around again. It's very sad.

We'll see what happens in the next round of talks. But, we need to elect union leaders who have a pair.

New K Now
Very well said. This cannot be emphasized enough! The key is in electing and supporting union leaders who understand this. Vote accordingly.
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Old 11-01-2009, 05:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Close...Bob was an Ozark pilot, then TWA, then AA. There's a slight difference, that in itself!

X
.... and I betcha he was somewhere before Ozark to boot, isn't that special...
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MD80 View Post
Copied from Regional forum. Pilot pay is a small part of ticket costs.

Have you guys ever thought of crew costs per passenger.


E170 MKE-MCO 2.5 hrs 85% load

Passengers 65
Crew costs CA$75FO$31 $106 plus 30% benefits equals $137/hr or $342.50 for the flight
Crew cost/passenger $5.30
Ticket cost $100.00
25% pay increase $1.32



E190 same trip

Passengers 85
Crew costs CA$90FO$31 or $121 plus 30% benefits equals $157.30/hr or $393.25 for the flight
Crew cost/passenger $4.62
Ticket costs $100
25% pay increase $1.15


Pilot costs are a small piece of the ticket costs. Is a 25% increase going to drive business away...

NO !!!
So what was Midwest's cost flying the same route?
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Close...Bob was an Ozark pilot, then TWA, then AA. There's a slight difference, that in itself!

X

Ozark was purchased by TWA in March 1986. If X was on property and a CA for TWA in 1986, then he is/would be a CA for American right now.
But X is furloughed. So X had not even interviewed with TWA when Ozark was bought. Yet he holds a grudge.
I'm an AA pilot. Bob posts alot on our APA website. I rarely agree with him, but here I will just say that X you need counciling.
I've flown with two ex TWA CA's at AA on the 757. Both were super great guys to work with. One ex OZ, they each had their side of the story. But I was thinking silently "You're still talking about 1986?"
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Ozark was purchased by TWA in March 1986. If X was on property and a CA for TWA in 1986, then he is/would be a CA for American right now.
But X is furloughed. So X had not even interviewed with TWA when Ozark was bought. Yet he holds a grudge.
I'm an AA pilot. Bob posts alot on our APA website. I rarely agree with him, but here I will just say that X you need counciling.
And this is relevant to the validity of the article how?
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