Chente

THANK YOU! Finally someone who gets it. FA's can in no way demand pay anywhere near Pilots pay. They are considered "Crewmembers" but in reality are just passengers that keep other passengers comfortable (And 'safe' if something happens). So just because we demand higher pay, doesn't necessarily mean it will lead to everyone else demanding it.

A little bit off topic.....I have been thinking about this for some time....but considering how the bar keeps getting lowered by ____________ Airlines, is there any way that you guys think a national walkout by every airline pilot would or can occur? It's quite intriguing and maybe something along those lines has to occur for the race to the bottom to stop.

2Co2Fur1EXwife

CAPT: Kim, can I get a cup of coffee?

FA: My job is to save lives, not serve drinks!

CAPT: How many lives have you saved?

FA: None in my 20+ years

CAPT: And how many cup of coffee have you served?!?

newKnow

Slow,

I'm sure you know that the situation you describe is called the race to the bottom. But, your post suggests that we are in a unique position and that somehow we always have to accept managements assertions that we as labor have to be the solution to saving the bottom line.

We don't. We will always be the solution to them as long as we allow it.
At some point we have to say enough is enough. At some point we have to say, "charge more for the tickets." At some point we have to change their fromula to include the possibility of a work stopage and what that does to their bottom line.

I mean, I'm willing to help, but I've been helping for close to 10 years now, as I make less now as a DC-9 captain than I did as a 757 FO in 2000. I mean, if they can't figure out how to pay us what we are worth after 10 years, then maybe it's time to make a point that they should have.

I, for one, will be sick to my stomach if management tries to come up with any more excuses as to why they can't pay us more. More importantly, I will be pizzed and ready to walk (hopefully, with 12,000 of my closest friends).

It's like you said and what I said before, "we need to stand firm." How we do that is not dependant on who is telling us to stand firm. What's important is that we be ready to do so when the time comes. I think part of that readiness is dependant on who we elect as our leaders now, and if they want to holler, let 'em.

New K Now

__________________
Choice is an illusion, between those with power, and those without.

Captain Bligh

That's the solution! We need to convince MGT that we need more and the F/As need to take a powder and have a TWA 1988 style flight attendant union busting!

I'd be on board with it. Especially if we could: 1) Call the scabs, scabs. and 2) Stop calling the ones we "forgave" scabs and 3) Get a national D.O.H. seniority list and 4) Get the Pan Am guys that didn't get integrated jobs at UAL and 5) Get the Brannif guys Eastern seniority numbers and... A national walk out... Ha! You can't get 1/3 of the pilots in this industry to read union mail.

Management is doing exactly what I would do (even less) knowing how fragmented pilots are!

Chente

Something needs to be done. I would absolutely be in favor of something like this but I doubt that others would be. I dont know, its just sad to see management scoot around scope by calling things "code shares" and so on. But pilots will always be willing to work for pennies so we are our own worst enemies.

Captain Bligh

On that we agree!

slowplay

I'm not suggesting that at all ging forward. I'm saying that is what has happened in the past. We DO NOT have to accept it going forward. It will require a substantial change in the way we do business as labor, or when the industry gets "healthy" we will repeat the cycle. There always seems to be a group of pilots willing to undercut until they get to the legacy system, then whine how their union didn't save them.

newKnow

I got cha, slow. I think we are on the same page.

__________________
Choice is an illusion, between those with power, and those without.

aewanabe

Um, no longer true Skyhigh. We have a LONG way to go yet, but the recent developments with our pay at Blue put us back in the fray. And BTW those didn't happen by accident, they came about after a union-organizing effort that came far closer to fruition than management ever thought it would.

Interestingly enough there were several guys who took the narrowbody experience at B6 and moved on to SW and DL, to name a couple. There was lots of muttering about the costs of training turnover back in '07.

X Rated

The only grudge I can hold against an Ozark pilot is that they spread the notion of being stapled in a merger with TWA when in fact, by their own agreement, they were given date of hire.

Many of the OZ pilots held this grudge for quite some time and made every effort to let those of us who were hired after the merger know it. It's also been said that more than a couple of OZ pilots have made the reference that TWA pilots need to be stapled because that's "what was done to them." If being awarded Date of Hire--by TWA pilots who've long retired before the AA/TWA merger--made them think that the TWA pilots should be stapled in the AA merger, maybe I'm not the one who needs counselling.

Bob is excellent with numbers. He's a nice guy. I don't have to agree with his views on mergers.


X

__________________
http://www.twapilot.org/TWA%20vs.%20ALPA%20Documents/Lee%20Seham%20Report.pdf