MD80

I believe you.

Send a LOA to BB that requires temporary bidding rights for Midwest pilots and let him tell the Midwest pilots to stick it.

Put it in BB lap. Stop the internal union finger pointing.

One piece of paper signed by Teamsters, ALPA, FAPA and Lynx. Make management the bad guy and make them say they will not spend a dime to help the Midwest pilots.

Rightseat Ballast

Yes, Midwest pilots have the legal right to be integrated.

Yes, the integration process has begun.

No, temporary bidding rights will not be granted. Here is why:
1. It would be UNFAIR to grant Midwest furloughees a seat before it is determined whether or not those Midwest pilots are more or less senior than the Frontier pilots (some who are on furlough and do not have an Airbus seat to return to), more or less senior than RAH pilots who may be entitled to bid over to new equipment, and more or less senior than a Lynx pilot.
2. It would be UNFAIR to fill a seat on a specific piece of equipment with a Midwest pilot before determining whether or not Frontier or Lynx pilots will be eligible to bid for that equipment.
3. It would be UNFAIR to assign a Midwest pilot to a particular seat (Captain or F/O) without first determining what their seniority will allow them to hold.
4. A LOA requires company approval. For those not familiar with Bedford's quest to keep costs down, believe me when I say that he will NEVER sign off on temporary bidding rights for the simple fact that extra training costs may be incurred. Say a YX pilot were put in a 190 training class before the SLI is complete...If after the SLI it is determined that pilot cannot hold a 190 seat, he would then have to be sent to training for another aircraft. Bedford will not agree to possibly pay to train one pilot twice.

We know the Midwest pilots are eager to know what opportunities await them at RAH. They want closure, and they want get on with life. But please keep in mind that there are 4 pilot groups involved in this merger, not just two. Everyone seems to assume that Frontier pilots will be completely fenced off, but that may be an inaccurate assumption. Perhaps Frontier wants the ability to bid for seats and bases in the RAH system to help out their commuters. They don't need a fence if they are given a no-bump guarantee. Also, Frontier still has some Airbus deliveries scheduled. Do you want Midwest pilots to be locked into a 190 seat when these new Airbuses arrive, or would you rather they have the option to bid on those new Airbuses? Remember, Bedford will not pay to train the same pilot twice in a short period of time. If a Midwest pilot were given temporary bidding, the company would demand a multi-year seat lock.

That is our reality. There are real reasons why Midwest pilots aren't in 190 training. It is not simply that RAH/Teamsters are stalling. For those looking at or recently on furlough, it may look that way. Everyone will see it their own way. But before you rush to judgement, please consider ALL arguments.

I often hear "RAH is stalling the integration." I also hear "RAH pilots want to be in the Airbus in two years". Those two claims are in complete contradiction with each other. The truth is far more bland. The RAH/Teamsters leadership wants a definitive solution to this integration, and not one that will incur lawsuits and delays for the next 5 years (US/AW). So far, the courts have affirmed the efforts and positions of the Teamsters. The Teasmters do want to end this quickly so that they may return to focusing on CBA negotiations. They do want to make sure all parties have a voice in the integration. The return of the 717's to Boeing was beyond the control of the Teamsters, and therefore the consequences of the 717's being returned (furlough of the YX pilots) will not be the controlling factor of the seniority integration. The need to get YX pilots back in the air is noted and being considered, but the entire process will not bend just to serve the short term needs of the YX pilots. It is not selfish, it is fair. There are 2800 other pilots in this integration, compared to the 400ish at Midwest. The process will serve the interests of the majority, and the requirements of the law. As hard as it is to watch, Midwest pilots are going to have to understand that fairness is something greater than just putting them into an airplane right away.

In no way am I implying that Midwest pilots won't be entitled or shouldn't be entitled to fly a 190, or entitled to hold a captain position on a RAH aircraft. I am very simply saying that until we know what a Midwest pilot can hold, and what a Frontier, Lynx, and RAH pilot can hold, we cannot just give Midwest pilots seats arbitrarily. It sucks, but most people will understand the logic behind it.

Purpleanga

I don't think the rah union has much power. They were recently denied an extension of top out rates for their FOs so they don't top out at 37 dollars 4th year and it was only like 5 dollars more for 8th. They were still denied that by the company. It's just my observation.

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TonyWilliams

Thanks for taking the time to make a reasoned response, without the knee jerk attacks.

Those of us sitting on the sidelines can only hope another AWE/USA debacle doesn't form (2 pilot groups, originally one union). To all the players in this, and as has been stated, there are four pilot groups with three different unions; please be respectful of one another. Tall order when you're on the street, but do you really want to even take a chance to end up hating each other? Tit for tat for years?

AirTrucker

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AWH

ToiletDuck

Negotiating how the process will work is the starting point of the negotiation process or else you end up like the US Air group. This has nothing to do with our furloughs but ensuring there is a solid process to follow. As you said they are negotiating on those points so obviously there's something to it. While yes we want our furloughs to get back as soon as possible this isn't about that.

MaxQ

Right Seat Ballast:
That was a thoughtful reply centered on reason as opposed to emotion. Thanks. Hope to fly with you sooner rather than later.
Regards

Harry Canyon

I would like to think this will be resolved without arbitration, but the logistics are too complicated. I am prepared to lose some ground when it happens. Everybody brings something to the table, and therefore everyone will lose a little something. I for one won't be too upset if a bunch of long time Midwest guys jump me on the new seniority list - they bring to the table a great MKE airline and years of great experience and customer loyalty and it should be worth much. I won't be 'too' upset if the most senior Republic guys jump me either. They brought a whole lot of money to the table to see us clear of bankruptcy, as well as a guaranteed revenue stream in the future that may be what we need to expand past the point of critical mass, and this should be worth much as well. But I also believe that Frontier brings a lot to the table too, which I wont list but simply submit on what I beleive are obvious merits. I believe there should be alot of respect for the 'career path' in the final integration, and I believe that the arbitrator will share that viewpoint. But those career expectations have the power to work me both ways when it comes to the Midwest pilots. Can't ask it from RAH pilots, and then not give it to Midwest ones.
I hope Airtran's offer for preferential interviews proves fruitful to the many Midwest pilots on here who have made it clear that they will never wear the RAH uniform. But for those of you out there who realize that we can eventually do this - all of this - integrate, grow, reorganize as one stronger union, collectively bargain for a great contract thereafter - and grow some more...keep the faith. It isnt going to be easy, but if we approach it the right way (NWA/Delta?) instead of the poison one (USAIR/AmWest) nothing is impossible.

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likeitis

That makes no sense whatsoever. US Air's cluster isn't because of the process. It's a disagreement of what the arbitrator ruled. Has nothing to do with whether the process was followed.

Rightseat Ballast

Likewise. Hopefully we can get this done soon and drown our differences over a few brews...my treat of course. I was a big fan of getting experience into the left seat of RAH aircraft during the US Airways J4J programs, and during the Shuttle America integration, even though it was at the expense on my seniority. I know I am the better for it, and I am sure some of our vocal junior pilots will come to realize the benefit of learning from you guys. Come what may, you guys still have my respect.