Thanks for the info. If the narrow bodies were paying $80/hr and the heavies were paying $130, how would a 2 yr FO be in the right seat of a wide body?
SWA has a 1 year captain scale, too - doesn't mean much though.
Thanks for the info. If the narrow bodies were paying $80/hr and the heavies were paying $130, how would a 2 yr FO be in the right seat of a wide body?
SWA has a 1 year captain scale, too - doesn't mean much though.
? Don't know - guess it could happen - I think UAL was putting new hires in the right seat of the 777 back in 1997 or so. You asked, it was answered - I guess you don't like the answer given.
No bashing taken. Those legacies extracted unrealistic wage increases that caused huge problems among the internal employee groups and ill will towards the customers who then voted with their feet. 9-11 (and of course a trip through bankruptcy) sure brought those wages back in to the realm of reality. Those wage increases were unsustainable long term based on financial reasons (i.e. income vs. revenue) and the competitive pressure from the LCC's.
Just the facts!
The Oscar
Oscar:
Southwest is slowly approaching the wages that you considered unrealistic. The reality is, the cost of pilot labor to a passenger is only $3-$6 depending on the carrier. Even if we doubled that, I don't think we are being greedy or unrealistic. The failure of the legacy's is more contributed to poor management, intense competition, and the internet.
Although I am happy for you guys setting the bar higher, please, let's not have a case of wealth guilt. As pilots, we are responsible for hundreds of people's lives during the course of just one days work. A doctor or any other professional could only wish to have that much responsibility.
We don't need the folks at the top thinking they are overpaid.
Thanks for the info. If the narrow bodies were paying $80/hr and the heavies were paying $130, how would a 2 yr FO be in the right seat of a wide body?
SWA has a 1 year captain scale, too - doesn't mean much though.
Shoot,
As I recall, United was putting pilots with 6 months seniority in the right seat of the 747-400 based in HNL in the mid 90's. Man. The good old days.
__________________
Choice is an illusion, between those with power, and those without.
Thanks for the info. If the narrow bodies were paying $80/hr and the heavies were paying $130, how would a 2 yr FO be in the right seat of a wide body?
Probably the same reason the 76 had a tendency to go "junior" when DAL hired recently. QOL on a widebody fleet sitting reserve for what could be years out of an undesirable domicile, for some at least.
If you had to "suffer" for $80/hr and be close to home/family and see a relatively quick rise in seniority/QOL vs. commuting to min days off and reserve with int'l flying (if that's not your thing), what would you do?
When CAL was hiring, it also was common for the junior guys in class in class to get the 777.
It's not always about the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by C5Guy
W O W
Its easy to forget things from 8 years ago. I guess the other big thing would be ticket prices of yesterday vs today and fuel prices.
Yeah, enough to make you sick. But it's been covered before, those rates simply weren't sustainable with the way the economy was trending in the summer/fall of 2001 regardless of 9/11. I remember reading something either last summer of summer 08 that the average ticket price was somewhere around less that 5% different than pre 9/11 levels. Kind of messed up, tickets are close in price to that time, fuel is not. Truly amazing what management was able to squeeze out of airline labor (all groups) to streamline their costs.
But it's been covered before, those rates simply weren't sustainable with the way the economy was trending in the summer/fall of 2001 regardless of 9/11. I remember reading something either last summer of summer 08 that the average.
I'm sick up and fed of people saying this. Do you realize just how little of a passenger's ticket price goes to Pilot wages? Do you honestly believe that those so called ridiculous wages were the result of any of our carriers going into Chapter 11?
Add a buck or two to each ticket and you could easily sustain those "un-sustainable" wages. Do you think my boss Larry Kellner worries about his "un-sustainable" wages???? Hell no!!!
I'm sick up and fed of people saying this. Do you realize just how little of a passenger's ticket price goes to Pilot wages?
Yes. But the problem is there are a ton of other labor groups that factor into the ticket price. Remember, "thersh thoushands of employees working behind the sheens to make sure you have a great flight". Labor costs ALL across the airlines were cut, not just pilots. It's funny when pilots think they are the ONLY employees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 757Driver
Do you honestly believe that those so called ridiculous wages were the result of any of our carriers going into Chapter 11?
This statement is a little confusing. Did you mean to say that the ridiculously low wages were a result of the BK's? Please show me where I said they were ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 757Driver
Add a buck or two to each ticket and you could easily sustain those "un-sustainable" wages. Do you think my boss Larry Kellner worries about his "un-sustainable" wages???? Hell no!!!
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 757Driver
We truly are our own worst enemy.
That's been proven time and time again. I never said I welcomed the paycuts. I've taken FOUR of them since 9/11 in one form or another. Of the two most recent, I didn't have a choice on the first, the other I voted NO, BOTH times. But what happened was the reality of it. UAL management knew full well they'd be getting concessions from the rates they gave with the trend in the economy.
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