Arscynic

Hi All,

I'm a private pilot and have been flying standby all my life on Delta, my step-mother is a retired Stewardess. My wife and I get S4 buddy passes every year. When it comes time to book a trip, we usually make the most of it and go some places far away. But I'm always left scratching my head when I look on Delta's Travelnet (for employees and retirees) and try to figure out just what are chances of making a flight based one "available" seats, "authorized seats" and more recently, something called the "Airport Standby List", which is one click past the "Non-revenue Standby List" on Travelnet.

Case in point, we are currently #12 and 13 on the non-rev standby list on a flight from xxx to yyy. The flight shows 4/4(26) in business and 5/10(158) in coach - available/authorized(capacity).

To me that means there are 9 tickets are unsold, but they actually estimate 14 seats being open based on probable no-shows.

But I'm not sure how the "Airport Standby List" figures into the equation?
For instance, why does it say there are 22 seats in coach and 4 in first remaining on this flight?

Here's what the Airport Standby list on Travelnet net shows (some data has been changed to adhere to privacy):

Standbys Remaining: 6 = REV 1 = NONREV
Seats Remaining: 4 = FIRST 0 = BUSINESS 22 = COACH

Name Class Destination Priority Timestamp Boarding Status
aaa/D V yyy UP5 0432/18NOV awaiting seat
bbb/M V yyy UP5 0125/24JAN awaiting seat
ccc/R V yyy UP5 0605/17FEB awaiting seat
ddd/I V yyy UP5 1843/18FEB awaiting seat
eee/R V yyy UP5 1455/23FEB awaiting seat
fff/K V yyy UP5 1658/13JAN awaiting seat
ggg/N YF yyy S3B 05-26-32 awaiting seat

Total Passengers in Airport Standby List : 7
Total Passengers in Removal List : 0
Combined Total Line : 7

I should add that only one person listed on the Airport Standby list also appears on the Non-rev Standby list (ggg/N)

If you know what this data really means, please let me know. I want to get better at estimating our chances of making flights going forward, so I can re-route or choose a different destination at the correct times.

Thanks!

BlueMoon

UP5 is people with a seat in coach, but desiring upgrade to 1st class

The seats remaining on the airport standby will change as people check-in and are assigned seats.

Arscynic

Ahhh, so the 22 in coach and 4 in first just means there are that many people who are "unassigned" seats currently?

I understand how to estimate my chances with: 4/4(26) in business and 5/10(158) in coach - available/authorized(capacity).

But the other data was/is confusing me.

rvr350

Also the "HK" factor. HK code means "mishandled, or misconnect" pax thru DL's fault, i.e. Mechanical problem on a flight that is eventually cancelled with have a boatload of HK that spills over to other available flights.

HK usually get populated onto the airport standby list anytime from a day prior to departure to just an hour before departure. They get first dibs on unassigned seats before you (S4). HK is non-rev's worst nightmare. Hope it helped.

schone

The flight shows 4/4(26) in business and 5/10(158) in coach - available/authorized(capacity).

Travel net is not as complicated as it seems. Let me try to help.

When you look at travel net, you are offered two views in one system. A reservation/booking agent view and an airport gate/checkin agent view.

You basically see two worlds and try to mash them into a picture.

The available/authorized is exactly what you deducted. It is available seats on the plane that haven't been sold, in your case 9. While the 14 seats are what Delta would like to oversell it to. In other words, Delta at this point in time believes that overselling the flight by 5 seats will guarantee their business model (i.e having the plane leave full). In other words, at this point in time delta would like to oversell your airplane by 2.7% no show factor.
If they are successful they believe it will guarantee flight no XXX on date XX/XXXX will be a beneficial cost unit. What happens in reality if its passengers that got bumped from other flights or all passengers that bought flights on this particular flight occupying those seats make no difference from a yield mgmt/booking point of view.

Now we get to the airport standby list, or active standby list or ASL. However you would like to call it.

That list is based on people checking in for the flight. The reason it shows alot of available seats is because alot of people to this day, only check in when they arrive at their original departure point. You might think its crazy but sometimes people aren't even checked in for their onward conenction flight until they arrive at that gate. For instaince, joe shmoe comes to his home airport in Cedar Rapids and for some reason an agent helps him instead of the kiosk... the agent by mistake only checks him in all the way to Detroit, but from there even tho he purchase a ticket onwards to LAX he isn't checked in by mistake. In that case when you will be trying your chances it will show you on the ASL that there is 1 seat available until the last second, even tho Joe Shmoe will be standing right next to you happy to board his flight.

So now we've established that the ASL is a real time status of what the gate agent is handling. It contains everybody that is trying to get on the flight for whatever reason and their status codes. HK=Hold Confirmed reservation, like someone else said, it's paying customers who got bumped, missed their connection, irops etc etc etc. UP1 is people wishing to upgrade to first. On the day of the flight you can consider them onboard with seats already. But don't bank on first class ;-).

And so as people check in the number of available seats will go down.

As people get bumped from their original flights the number of REVENUE stand bys will go up in the ASL.

That's it... i think i covered all.

In other words, if on the day of your flight you are showing 0 seats and delta trying to oversell 5 and you are number 3,4,5 on the standby list (non rev list) you will probably make it on by a hair...

Questions?

jayray2

I've found the ASL to be a pretty accurate picture of how many seats are going to be open when I get to the airport. I am not sure it works the way you think because even though people are not checked in, it will not show their seat as open. Are you sure it takes into account people checking in? It seems more like it is just seats assigned vs. not assigned and has nothing to do with checking in. The seats available number on the ASL page always seems more accurate than the first AV number.

The AV/AU numbers in my experience are not very reliable. It changes by the hour by as much as a 15 seat swing. It makes no sense. Numerous times I have gotten a seat when according to the AV/AU numbers the flight was grossly oversold. Conversely, a for sure thing has unexpectedly turned into not getting a seat on one occasion.

I think your advice of taking both pages and trying to mesh them together is the best advice. A lot of times it feels like gambling when trying to decide what to do but more often than not it works out.

Arscynic

Well, you guys are pretty darn awesome! Thanks for answering so intelligently, beats the hell out of most forums when you ask a difficult question.

Jayray, I think I'm on the same page as you. I read somewhere (can't recall where) about a employee who uses the ASL page to help determine their chances of making a flight, and thats what got me started in writing this post. The au/av(cap) is simple, but when you add the ASL page to the equation it still seems fuzzy to me, what exactly those are numbers are saying about my chances to make a flight. ASL seats remaining (whatever that means ) have dropped by 20 in the past 6 hours.

As it stands now, I don't really think we are going to make it on this flight. But I guess I will give it a shot.


Current update on my flight:
first 3/3(26) coach 1/6(158)

ASL PAGE:
Standbys Remaining:
11 = REV

1 = NONREV


Seats Remaining:
2 = FIRST

0 = BUSINESS

4 = COACH
Total Passengers in Airport Standby List : 12
Total Passengers in Removal List : 0
Combined Total Line : 12

ZDub

Close. HK is "Held and Confirmed" (yeah, I know K as opposed to C). HK*I* is Held and Confirmed, Inconvienced. They hit the top of the ASL even above the HK's. Any rev pax can become an HK at time of check in. These are pax that do not have a seat assignment due to blocked seats, oversales etc..The DLTerm programality assigns these pax in order of mileage status, fare category and any number of other variables that no mortal human can understand. And yeah, you're dead on with the HK being the nemisis of the non-rev. They're a "sure thing" killer. It's best to check TravelNet 24hrs prior and day of to get a realistic feel of your odds. Hope that helps....

BlueMoon

HK stands for "home killer" for us commuters

ZDub

Well said sir. Well said....