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03-14-2011, 01:00 PM

#4751

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy

I agree with T. If ALPA really IS the best option, and it very well may be, what's wrong with the vetting process?

There should be nothing wrong with a vetting process. Instead, we have ALPA using valuable Wilson polling time asking us questions about the DPA...instead of asking what we want in the next contract.

Carl

03-14-2011, 01:04 PM

#4752

X2FLY

Capt, SCA A-320

Joined APC: Jan 2008

Position: A-320 Left

Posts: 10

Not sure if this is the right place to post, but does anyone know (At Delta) a Capt Jerry McMillian?? Not sure if he has retired yet or not. He is an old Western guy based in Utah last I knew. PM if you might have any info. Thanks in advance!

03-14-2011, 01:09 PM

#4753

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Ok, The red book and green book guys got along great. The SEA and DTW MEC got along great. There were never any observers or reporters or whatever watching each side. It was all one huge happy family.

OHHHH...you're confusing unity with no debating and standing up whenever the MEC chairman enters the room. No we didn't do that at NWA because we don't consider lack of debate and standing for the "dear leader" as showing unity.

Despite our LBO and merger with Republic, we all UNIFIED and struck the airline to get what we knew was right. 100% unity that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Somehow for Dalpa being so wrong they managed to produce consistently overall better contracts then NWA. Think about why!

That's the Kool-Aid talking sailingfun. Our pay rates may not have hit the peak that yours did, but so many other points in our contract were as good or better. From sick leave to work rules and many other items. You've simply got to get over this concept that you learned during indoc on your first day. There really are other airlines that have better things. Really!

Carl

03-14-2011, 01:21 PM

#4754

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

IPA got UPS pilot's their current rates after who????

ALPA.

Delta, United got their contracts slaughtered being represented by whom? IPA didn't get slaughtered after who?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

SWAPA became some of the highest paid pilots in our profession after UAL/DAL/NWA/UsAir rates were slashed in BK.

Not true. You need to stop just looking at pay rates. It's pay rates and work rules that determine how much your W-2 will show for how many days you work. SWA was very close to us and exceeded us in some cases well before BK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

They NEVER negotiated industry leading rates, they fell into them.

They also never negotiated Scope giveaways and complete collapses. They never celebrated the collapse of an airline on the cover of their magazine. And they never tried to bust a union.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Those are facts.

So is everything I've written above.

Carl

03-14-2011, 02:58 PM

#4755

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined APC: Mar 2008

Position: 767er Captain

Posts: 12,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

I don't think he was referring to LM, but rather Caplinger.

Ummmmm......

03-14-2011, 03:22 PM

#4756

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy

What influence would you be talking about?

The influence to prevent Grand Theft Pension?

The influence to prevent bastardization of the 1,500 hour rule?

The influence to prevent age 65?

The influence to make Crew Pass appear?

The influence to prevent wholesale outsourcing of our careers at ALL levels?

It should be noted that the whole recent screening mess fix AND the FFDO process was only started after OTHER groups got the ball rolling. And other groups sure managed to steamroll the age 65 thing under the radar and in record time.

Heck, we can't even write contract language that prevented the outsourcing of MORE RJs, and we had to do a quickie, one-man grievance settlement.

As far as producing "overall" better contracts, I would disagree. Sure the pay rates were higher, but I will disagree on the rest. From position bidding, to outsourced instructors (bye bye 350+ pilot jobs with that, BTW) to hours of service protections, I'd have to say "er, not so much".

Nu

Excellent points all.

Carl

03-14-2011, 03:33 PM

#4757

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Nice quibble.

You crossed a picket line of fellow NWA employees. Members of an independent union.

Our ALPA was very clear that ALPA's position was that we should not honor their picket line and that if we did, our legal position would be unclear at best. Only you would call that quibbling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Who crossed the ALPA picket line in 1998?

No pilot did - that's called unity. As far as other employee groups, we issued a statement that we did NOT want any other employee group to honor our picket line and put their jobs in jeopardy. I think we handled that strike about as good as any strike anywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Wrong! ALPA told you that you could honor the picket line and would not be subject to discipline. You had the opportunity to honor the picket line, but you would not have been paid for the trip.

That's a complete lie. The official ALPA position was for us to not honor that picket line, and our legal position would be unclear with regard to disciplinary action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Deal with it however you choose, but don't EVER tell another Delta pilot that they don't "get it"! Pre-merger Delta pilots have never crossed a picket line.

You have no idea what it's like. None! There were no unions on the property at Delta for you to have ever crossed. Pretty big talk about not crossing picket lines at a non-union airline. You're one gutsy dude!

Carl

03-14-2011, 03:37 PM

#4758

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Most Delta pilots have not even heard of DPA.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

After nearly a year of organizing, who's fault is that?

You're absolutely right...it's DPA's fault. They haven't been nearly aggressive enough in getting the word out. It's amazing to me that they've gotten 2000 cards from a website that is not being advertised.

Carl

03-14-2011, 03:39 PM

#4759

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Imagine what would happen if we had to vote DALPA in every year or so instead of existing in perpetuation?

Man is THAT ever an interesting point.

Carl

03-14-2011, 03:41 PM

#4760

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I mean if we voted every year or even every 2-3 years of halfway between the contract? A vote of confidence or no-confidence?

Seems harmless to me, only 1900 pilots of 12,000 would vote them out right? So there is nothing for ALPA to fear and the idea of the DPA would be washed aside. It's a win win.

Right?