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Old 11-13-2006, 06:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Non-union list

I'm always reading about people hating non-union pilots. I agree with this. However I'm not working for any of these guys yet. I've been getting my resume together and plan on sending out a few to feel the area. I was wondering if I could get a list of what regionals/airlines are non-union. I've seen job listings for GoJets then found out they weren't after a little research. I'd hate to make the mistake and waste time on those companies. So if someone could make a list of companies that are non-union that would help me quite a bit.

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Old 11-13-2006, 06:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck View Post
I'm always reading about people hating non-union pilots. I agree with this. However I'm not working for any of these guys yet. I've been getting my resume together and plan on sending out a few to feel the area. I was wondering if I could get a list of what regionals/airlines are non-union. I've seen job listings for GoJets then found out they weren't after a little research. I'd hate to make the mistake and waste time on those companies. So if someone could make a list of companies that are non-union that would help me quite a bit.

Thanks
Duck

airlinepilocentral.info Look under the union section for each individual airline. It will tell you which union, if any
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well back to gojets It says teamsters negotiating first contract. Does that mean once negotiated they join a union? Do teamsters count as one? If not what's the difference?
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wow. You are one left leaning MF. I love my union but come on.
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Wow. You are one left leaning MF. I love my union but come on.
The true statement would be I think unions are a great thing and I'm trying to learn what the differences are. I'm searching wikipedia too.
***EDIT***

From wikipedia.

International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT), formerly known by the name International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Warehousemen and Helpers of America, is one of the largest labor unions in the United States.

Don't all unions strive for the same thing? Are the teamsters somehow screwing the ALPA guys because they are doing it seperatly? In the case of GoJets where they are a new upstarting company how is it the teamsters go involved to start with? Were they asked by the company? Why didn't APLA talk to those pilots? How did one and not the other end up representing the pilots there?

Here it says the teamsters do continental but I thought they were ALPA.... I'm confused. Sorry if this has been discussed. I just read yalls thoughts everyday and don't always follow. http://www.teamster.org/divisions/Ai...line_sum05.pdf
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Last edited by ToiletDuck; 11-13-2006 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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When UPS first started out, they had the Teamsters as their union. I was there then and don't remember the Teamsters doing anything of value for our crew force, except maybe taking our dues monies. Ask some of the other old time UPS'ers, I'm sure they could explain it better than I, as I was only there for a year, but during that time, we voted out the Teamsters and voted in IPA. A very good thing.
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Old 11-13-2006, 07:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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TD,

Possibly a more important question than "which carriers are unionized", is "which carriers have a good contract or emp./man. relationship".

For instance, Mesa is an ALPA carrier. Thier contract blows.
PSA is an ALPA carrier. Thier contract language has holes big enough to fly a 747 through.
GoJets is now a Teamsters carrier. They're still a bunch of dirty scabs.

On the other hand, SkyWest is non-union and they have some of the best work rules in the industry. Thier pay rates may not be as good as some, but you hear few complaints after the 1st year.

XJT & AWAC have excellent contracts.

Comair has perhaps the best regional contract - for now. Bankruptcy has been a ***** on Contracts recently.



IBT is not necessarily screwing ALPA. Both are AFL-CIO affiliates, so there's a no-poaching agreement between the two. ALPA has lots of experience representing pilots, and several fringe benefits designed for the aviation professional. IBT not so much. Lost of guys are ****ed at ALPA for its week performance snce 9/11. The new ALPA President seems to be more of a Firebrand and less likely to give any concessions than the previous guy.

In my opinion, IBT has its place in aviation; at the smallest carriers, but ALPA is probably a better choice for most.
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Old 11-13-2006, 09:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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When working for a regional/airline is it possible for pilot A to belong to IBT and pilot B to be with the other or since they are bot AFL-CIO does the airline pick who they want to go with and the pilots then have a choice of taking that option or no? And your statement on SkyWest is kind of odd. Would working for them put you on the "no jumpseat" list?(only way I could word it lol. Basically the hate list)

Good thing to hear about XJT that's who I'll be sending one of my resumes to!
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The Teamsters decided to leave AFL-CIO last year over something I can't quite recall. I think it has to do with a power struggle or something.
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Old 11-14-2006, 09:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck View Post
When working for a regional/airline is it possible for pilot A to belong to IBT and pilot B to be with the other or since they are bot AFL-CIO does the airline pick who they want to go with and the pilots then have a choice of taking that option or no? And your statement on SkyWest is kind of odd. Would working for them put you on the "no jumpseat" list?(only way I could word it lol. Basically the hate list)

Good thing to hear about XJT that's who I'll be sending one of my resumes to!
No, if an airline has a union, everyone is a member. Well, you can elect to not join, but then you still have to pay dues (or be fired) and have no voting or other benefits. So basically almost all pilots are members of the union at their company.

Historically, ALPA was a great thing in that it unified the national pilot workforce. There are so many things wrong with alpa today that I don't really know where to start, but the underlying problem is that there are a variety of "union" workforces that have their own in-house union.

It may or may not have been the fault of alpa leadership at some point that these groups were driven out of the fold. AA was the first to go, and SWA is another big example of a non-alpa union. They take care of their own, but often have no interest in working towards a unified national best interest. They vigorously assist their own companies in competetion with other companies (and pilot groups).

A true national union that included EVERYONE might well have the power to improve conditions across the board, and that was the intent of alpa in the first place (pre-WWII).

As an entry level regional pilot you need to be aware that alpa has failed miserably in protecting the regional pilots. The current regional death-spiral could have been prevented by any of several means (scope, one-list, etc), but alpa didn't even bother to try. Selecting a regional based on their union status is utter silliness...GoJets and Mesa are both union, teamsters and alpa respectively. Skywest is not union, but if that concerns you talk to all of the ex-alpa pilots who now work at skywest!


I am personally pro-union, but not suicidaly so. The battle cry of those who would mindlessly support alpa regardless of it's failings is "It's not alpa's responsibility! Blame your company or your own pilot group!"... F&CKING HORSESH&T! I don't pay my company 2% of my income to look after my interests...for that kind of money I expect a return on my investment!

Skywest treats me just fine in all respects, and the bonuses and work rules more than make up for the percieved hourly rate issues with 700's. My only use for a union is PUBLISHED NATIONAL STANDARDS and a VIGOROUSLY EXECUTED PLAN TO IMPLEMENT THEM. I have no interest in inviting alpa to come in and f&ck up SKW like they did at my last job. If the new national leadership demonstrates some vision and agressiveness, and makes efforts to team up with the big non-alpa unions, that might be worth my 2% in the long run.
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