Allegiant Air
08-22-2014, 12:37 PM
#541
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 480
Republic is up against it's peer group. The regional pay for departure group as a whole has pretty much the same compensation. I think the NMB has a difficult time distinguishing amongst them. Therefore release from mediation is hard for them to justify, when the counter proposals mirror the peer group. G4 is bottom in every category for its segment of the industry. IMHO I don’t think the NMB will find our request unreasonable. Therefore it won't be an open-ended process.
SM meeting with MG does nothing to abrogate the union membership. We would have to vote on a contract proposal. I’m sure there was nothing of real substance discussed anyhow.
SM meeting with MG does nothing to abrogate the union membership. We would have to vote on a contract proposal. I’m sure there was nothing of real substance discussed anyhow.
08-22-2014, 12:38 PM
#542
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by INXS
Or MG could just show up to a scheduled meeting with our negotiating team & have any & all questions responded to in full. 
08-22-2014, 02:07 PM
#543
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by Uncle Wurmy
Nailed it.
The point was that the way it was done let MG dictate the terms. This is really quite simple. The AAY pilot group is in a struggle to obtain a decent quality of life. At this point, that's going to involve playing by the rules of the game. From our point of view, we just can't afford to make mistakes, especially ones that can damage morale and motivation of the pilot group by opening up the suggestion of backroom deals. The topics discussed, and whether or not they were legal, have no bearing on this discussion. The real damage done will be in the form of lack of pilot faith in its leadership, and that is a view shared by many.
Was this just another Kabuki dance that we've fallen for?
The point was that the way it was done let MG dictate the terms. This is really quite simple. The AAY pilot group is in a struggle to obtain a decent quality of life. At this point, that's going to involve playing by the rules of the game. From our point of view, we just can't afford to make mistakes, especially ones that can damage morale and motivation of the pilot group by opening up the suggestion of backroom deals. The topics discussed, and whether or not they were legal, have no bearing on this discussion. The real damage done will be in the form of lack of pilot faith in its leadership, and that is a view shared by many.
Was this just another Kabuki dance that we've fallen for?
Did you read my previous post?
Not trying to be confrontational, but did you take a poll on this? When you say "OUR point of view", do you speak for others? Maybe we work for different companies but virtually every pilot I speak with in FL fully supports our IBT leadership and the guys out west I know generally feel the same. I haven't heard any complaints about IBT reps speaking to management either.
There will always be those who will disagree with a given direction. That's healthy and normal group dynamics, and from my experience, IBT has listened. Then there are are those that will complain no matter what the direction is because they have an underlying motive.
I don't intend to get into a pi$$ing contest but if there's anything that will damage "morale and motivation" or keep us from pursuing a "decent quality of life", it's divisive posts like these that openly question the competence and integrity of our leadership. It’s not only unfair to those who volunteer countless hours busting their a$$ on our behalf, but it’s counterproductive to all of us. Instead of playing in to management's hands by venting on a public forum, pick up a phone and tell someone in union leadership. Better yet, since you appear to have your finger on the pulse, volunteer for a leadership position. I hear they're always looking for volunteers. I've done it before and swore off ever doing it again, for reasons stated above. For now, I'll stick with supporting their efforts and communicating my ideas/concerns to those that can actually effect change.
My questions are rhetorical so please don't feel the need to reply. If you do, for the sake of our mutual goal of improving our lives, just PM me and we'll take this discussion off line.
Last edited by dawgdriver; 08-22-2014 at 02:41 PM.
08-22-2014, 03:04 PM
#544
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by dawgdriver
Lack of pilot faith in its leadership...view shared by many...Playing by the rules... Back room deals… Legal...Kabuki Dance...Really??
Did you read my previous post?
Not trying to be confrontational, but did you take a poll on this? When you say "OUR point of view", do you speak for others? Maybe we work for different companies but virtually every pilot I speak with in FL fully supports our IBT leadership and the guys out west I know generally feel the same. I haven't heard any complaints about IBT reps speaking to management either.
There will always be those who will disagree with a given direction. That's healthy and normal group dynamics, and from my experience, IBT has listened. Then there are are those that will complain no matter what the direction is because they have an underlying motive.
I don't intend to get into a pi$$ing contest but if there's anything that will damage "morale and motivation" or keep us from pursuing a "decent quality of life", it's divisive posts like these that openly question the competence and integrity of our leadership. It’s not only unfair to those who volunteer countless hours busting their a$$ on our behalf, but it’s counterproductive to all of us. Instead of playing in to management's hands by venting on a public forum, pick up a phone and tell someone in union leadership. Better yet, since you appear to have your finger on the pulse, volunteer for a leadership position. I hear they're always looking for volunteers. I've done it before and swore off ever doing it again, for reasons stated above. For now, I'll stick with supporting their efforts and communicating my ideas/concerns to those that can actually effect change.
My questions are rhetorical so please don't feel the need to reply. If you do, for the sake of our mutual goal of improving our lives, just PM me and we'll take this discussion off line.
Did you read my previous post?
Not trying to be confrontational, but did you take a poll on this? When you say "OUR point of view", do you speak for others? Maybe we work for different companies but virtually every pilot I speak with in FL fully supports our IBT leadership and the guys out west I know generally feel the same. I haven't heard any complaints about IBT reps speaking to management either.
There will always be those who will disagree with a given direction. That's healthy and normal group dynamics, and from my experience, IBT has listened. Then there are are those that will complain no matter what the direction is because they have an underlying motive.
I don't intend to get into a pi$$ing contest but if there's anything that will damage "morale and motivation" or keep us from pursuing a "decent quality of life", it's divisive posts like these that openly question the competence and integrity of our leadership. It’s not only unfair to those who volunteer countless hours busting their a$$ on our behalf, but it’s counterproductive to all of us. Instead of playing in to management's hands by venting on a public forum, pick up a phone and tell someone in union leadership. Better yet, since you appear to have your finger on the pulse, volunteer for a leadership position. I hear they're always looking for volunteers. I've done it before and swore off ever doing it again, for reasons stated above. For now, I'll stick with supporting their efforts and communicating my ideas/concerns to those that can actually effect change.
My questions are rhetorical so please don't feel the need to reply. If you do, for the sake of our mutual goal of improving our lives, just PM me and we'll take this discussion off line.
As for the word legal, I didn't bring that up, nor did I imply it. YOU did in your earlier post, I was just responding to you bringing it up.
Posts do not make us question our leadership, whether in the union or the company. Their own actions, or lack of, make us do that.
I support the IBT and our union leadership. I just don't want the same kind of transparency that management gives us. We all deserve better. Any effort to discourage us being treated like that, or to ensure it doesn't ever happen, is a good thing.
08-22-2014, 03:40 PM
#545
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by Uncle Wurmy
I like how you assume that just because I question things, that I am not already a volunteer. Nice.
As for the word legal, I didn't bring that up, nor did I imply it. YOU did in your earlier post, I was just responding to you bringing it up.
Posts do not make us question our leadership, whether in the union or the company. Their own actions, or lack of, make us do that.
I support the IBT and our union leadership. I just don't want the same kind of transparency that management gives us. We all deserve better. Any effort to discourage us being treated like that, or to ensure it doesn't ever happen, is a good thing.
As for the word legal, I didn't bring that up, nor did I imply it. YOU did in your earlier post, I was just responding to you bringing it up.
Posts do not make us question our leadership, whether in the union or the company. Their own actions, or lack of, make us do that.
I support the IBT and our union leadership. I just don't want the same kind of transparency that management gives us. We all deserve better. Any effort to discourage us being treated like that, or to ensure it doesn't ever happen, is a good thing.
It's not that you question things, it's the very public manner you choose that is of concern, especially given the fact you're an IBT volunteer. Not sure about AAY, but my last union discouraged union reps from posting on public forums. Does IBT allow it here? I can't imagine IBT wanting volunteers who are so publicly critical of their leadership's competence and integrity. Have you voiced these concerns to the ExCo? If so, what was their response?
08-22-2014, 04:50 PM
#546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by dawgdriver
It's not that you question things, it's the very public manner you choose that is of concern, especially given the fact you're an IBT volunteer. Not sure about AAY, but my last union discouraged union reps from posting on public forums. Does IBT allow it here? I can't imagine IBT wanting volunteers who are so publicly critical of their leadership's competence and integrity. Have you voiced these concerns to the ExCo? If so, what was their response?
Please go back and re-read my posts. I am not criticizing the IBT leadership or EXCO leadership. I am saying that everything should be transparent and they should think about their actions and not do anything that allows anyone to have room to criticize. I have had plenty of negative questions poised to me this week about the meeting, and that’s exactly the type of thing our union leadership doesn’t need and should strive to avoid. I am saying that we shouldn’t be giving anyone, pilots or management, room make accusations by doing things that aren’t out in the open and aren’t truly totally transparent.
I never said anything bad about our EXCO. I’m not sure where you came up with that, or why you are so defensive. We should all question ourselves and our leaders, and make sure everything is above board.
When you are in leadership, you have to always think about how things look, even if your actions are admirable you have to make sure that they appear that way to the people you represent, or you can lose their support and trust. I don’t want to see that happen. I’m sure many people here have worked at other airlines where their MEC or EXCO wasn’t trusted or did something that wasn’t above board. We need to work to avoid even the perception of that here, and not give GB and his buddies any ammunition to work with, because you know that it what is going to happen.
In case you weren’t privy to it, the Kabuki dance was what MG told the judge he was doing in the past when he was pretending to negotiate and talk productively with the pilots. Our union speaks for us…through the negotiation process that is on-going and that has moved past one person meetings with MG.
Several of the people who comment, not always positively, on this forum are reps of one sort or another in case you were interested.
Peace out!
08-22-2014, 11:48 PM
#547
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 100
"When a man assumes a public trust, he should consider himself as public property."
-Thomas Jefferson-
-Thomas Jefferson-
08-23-2014, 06:27 AM
#548
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
Great quote, let's use it in our future recruiting efforts. Between that and the scrutiny our volunteers face on these forums, I'm sure we'll get plenty of volunteers to help run this union.
Seriously, I hope our volunteers don't have the time to read these forums. Their courage and commitment to make the tough calls and stay the course, in the face of unrelenting criticism, is truly admirable. Talk about a thankless job. Fighting the toughest management is hard enough, now they're fighting a battle on two fronts. I'm sure management appreciates the help. Sarcasm aside, I'm beginning to understand why our union leadership has such a tough time recruiting help and volunteers. Who needs this?
I doubt the same effort used to publicly question our union leadership will be applied if/when their calculated decisions prove to be effective. Time will tell, but I still believe this move to draw MG to the bargaining table carried very limited risk/downside. It might not pan out, but if it does, I won't be holding my breath waiting for acknowledgment on this website.
The time wasted on these forums publicly questioning our elected leaders would be better spent communicating directly with them. Otherwise we only hurt ourselves.
Seriously, I hope our volunteers don't have the time to read these forums. Their courage and commitment to make the tough calls and stay the course, in the face of unrelenting criticism, is truly admirable. Talk about a thankless job. Fighting the toughest management is hard enough, now they're fighting a battle on two fronts. I'm sure management appreciates the help. Sarcasm aside, I'm beginning to understand why our union leadership has such a tough time recruiting help and volunteers. Who needs this?
I doubt the same effort used to publicly question our union leadership will be applied if/when their calculated decisions prove to be effective. Time will tell, but I still believe this move to draw MG to the bargaining table carried very limited risk/downside. It might not pan out, but if it does, I won't be holding my breath waiting for acknowledgment on this website.
The time wasted on these forums publicly questioning our elected leaders would be better spent communicating directly with them. Otherwise we only hurt ourselves.
08-23-2014, 06:36 AM
#549
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by dawgdriver
I doubt the same effort used to publicly question our union leadership will be applied if/when their calculated decisions prove to be effective. Time will tell, but I still believe this move to draw MG to the bargaining table carried very limited risk/downside. It might not pan out, but if it does, I won't be holding my breath waiting for acknowledgment on this website.
Seriously, I hope our volunteers don't have the time to read these forums. Their courage and commitment to make the tough calls and stay the course, in the face of unrelenting criticism, is truly admirable. Talk about a thankless job. Fighting the toughest management is hard enough, now they're fighting a battle on two fronts. I'm sure management appreciates the help. Sarcasm aside, I'm beginning to understand why our union leadership has such a tough time recruiting help and volunteers. Who needs this?
The time wasted on these forums publicly questioning our elected leaders would be better spent communicating directly with them. Otherwise we only hurt ourselves.
Seriously, I hope our volunteers don't have the time to read these forums. Their courage and commitment to make the tough calls and stay the course, in the face of unrelenting criticism, is truly admirable. Talk about a thankless job. Fighting the toughest management is hard enough, now they're fighting a battle on two fronts. I'm sure management appreciates the help. Sarcasm aside, I'm beginning to understand why our union leadership has such a tough time recruiting help and volunteers. Who needs this?
The time wasted on these forums publicly questioning our elected leaders would be better spent communicating directly with them. Otherwise we only hurt ourselves.
LUV
08-23-2014, 12:24 PM
#550
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Off to the left!
Posts: 464
The side meeting with MG was, frankly, pointless. He played the idiot who claims he has no idea what's going on within his own company. Do you really believe he has no idea what's going on?
From what I understand, it was laid out to him why people are upset, and really how ****ed off people are now. I don't know if he will believe it over his own cronies or not, but it certainly won't hurt to let him know that everyone is ready to go on strike.
From what I understand, it was laid out to him why people are upset, and really how ****ed off people are now. I don't know if he will believe it over his own cronies or not, but it certainly won't hurt to let him know that everyone is ready to go on strike.
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