Frontier Hiring.
07-31-2016, 09:34 PM
#5032
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: Fighting the Good fight
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by AncientAliens
I'm sure ALPA is dedicating the necessary resources to our cause. Negotiating pay rates isn't that different from selling a house. You see what other houses on your block are selling for and price accordingly. ALPA has a strong incentive to get the best possible price for us because right now our contract is the burnt out lot on the corner with the meth lab in the basement that's bringing the value of everyone else's house down.
Well said.
07-31-2016, 11:04 PM
#5033
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by AncientAliens
I'm sure ALPA is dedicating the necessary resources to our cause. Negotiating pay rates isn't that different from selling a house. You see what other houses on your block are selling for and price accordingly. ALPA has a strong incentive to get the best possible price for us because right now our contract is the burnt out lot on the corner with the meth lab in the basement that's bringing the value of everyone else's house down.
08-01-2016, 06:19 AM
#5035
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by SpankysLadder
I am mighty curious how F9 pay and contract compares to what Allegiant just won. If anyone has taken the time to analyze the two and if they could share it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Allegiant Air | AirlinePilotCentral.com
Frontier Airlines | AirlinePilotCentral.com
Major-National-LCC | AirlinePilotCentral.com
08-01-2016, 08:25 AM
#5036
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by SpankysLadder
I am mighty curious how F9 pay and contract compares to what Allegiant just won. If anyone has taken the time to analyze the two and if they could share it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
The comparison becomes murky when you start trying to place a value on some of the work rules and other conditions in the contract. Just as a quick example, Allegiant is allowed to schedule pilots for a certain number of single days off in any given month. Frontier's CBA (except for special/limited circumstances) prohibits single days off. What's this worth to you?
I'm certainly no expert on the new Allegiant contract, but there are probably hundreds of these types of things. Some beancounter could claim to assign a value to each of these items down to the penny, but I still think it comes down to what an individual pilot deems important.
With all this being said, the top F9 captain rate as of today is $160.21/hr. I don't have the number in front of me, but I seem to recall the new Allegiant top rate is somewhere around $205/hr. I think even the most pro-company-biased beancounter would have a tough time saying the difference in our work rules makes up this kind of disparity.
I hear all the time that Frontier's work rules are uber fantastic. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Yes, we have a few things that are very desirable, but the contract package is lacking in so many other aspects that the net result is an average to below-average quality of life.
If I had to explain our contract to a non aviation person, I'd say we're paid well below industry average, but our contract allows us to work extra hard so we can obtain approximately 80% of industry average by working 125% as hard as an average pilot.
I want to make it clear that I'm not taking anything away from the accomplishments of Allegiant with their new contract. I think they've definitely improved their position. I'm hoping our negotiating committee will do the same for us.
08-01-2016, 09:19 AM
#5037
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
I don't have the number in front of me, but I seem to recall the new Allegiant top rate is somewhere around $205/hr.
Year 12 FO today $145, DOS +5 $155
08-01-2016, 11:46 AM
#5038
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: Yellow Bus
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
It's tough to make a direct comparison. My understanding is that even Allegiant's new contract contains some objectionable language and provisions. Their new hourly rates are significantly higher than our hourly rates. This is the easy part to compare.
The comparison becomes murky when you start trying to place a value on some of the work rules and other conditions in the contract. Just as a quick example, Allegiant is allowed to schedule pilots for a certain number of single days off in any given month. Frontier's CBA (except for special/limited circumstances) prohibits single days off. What's this worth to you?
I'm certainly no expert on the new Allegiant contract, but there are probably hundreds of these types of things. Some beancounter could claim to assign a value to each of these items down to the penny, but I still think it comes down to what an individual pilot deems important.
With all this being said, the top F9 captain rate as of today is $160.21/hr. I don't have the number in front of me, but I seem to recall the new Allegiant top rate is somewhere around $205/hr. I think even the most pro-company-biased beancounter would have a tough time saying the difference in our work rules makes up this kind of disparity.
I hear all the time that Frontier's work rules are uber fantastic. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Yes, we have a few things that are very desirable, but the contract package is lacking in so many other aspects that the net result is an average to below-average quality of life.
If I had to explain our contract to a non aviation person, I'd say we're paid well below industry average, but our contract allows us to work extra hard so we can obtain approximately 80% of industry average by working 125% as hard as an average pilot.
I want to make it clear that I'm not taking anything away from the accomplishments of Allegiant with their new contract. I think they've definitely improved their position. I'm hoping our negotiating committee will do the same for us.
The comparison becomes murky when you start trying to place a value on some of the work rules and other conditions in the contract. Just as a quick example, Allegiant is allowed to schedule pilots for a certain number of single days off in any given month. Frontier's CBA (except for special/limited circumstances) prohibits single days off. What's this worth to you?
I'm certainly no expert on the new Allegiant contract, but there are probably hundreds of these types of things. Some beancounter could claim to assign a value to each of these items down to the penny, but I still think it comes down to what an individual pilot deems important.
With all this being said, the top F9 captain rate as of today is $160.21/hr. I don't have the number in front of me, but I seem to recall the new Allegiant top rate is somewhere around $205/hr. I think even the most pro-company-biased beancounter would have a tough time saying the difference in our work rules makes up this kind of disparity.
I hear all the time that Frontier's work rules are uber fantastic. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Yes, we have a few things that are very desirable, but the contract package is lacking in so many other aspects that the net result is an average to below-average quality of life.
If I had to explain our contract to a non aviation person, I'd say we're paid well below industry average, but our contract allows us to work extra hard so we can obtain approximately 80% of industry average by working 125% as hard as an average pilot.
I want to make it clear that I'm not taking anything away from the accomplishments of Allegiant with their new contract. I think they've definitely improved their position. I'm hoping our negotiating committee will do the same for us.
Lol, work "extra hard" to make 80% of your peers....sounds like a bad deal. I'd rather "barely work" to make 100% of my peers
All LCC Airbus pilots should easily make 100-150k as FO just on guarantee. and CAs around 200-240k. That's fair for an LCC in my mind. That's net and on guarantee with ~15 days off. I don't think that's unreasonable
08-01-2016, 08:18 PM
#5039
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by dfwflyboy
Lol, work "extra hard" to make 80% of your peers....sounds like a bad deal. I'd rather "barely work" to make 100% of my peers
All LCC Airbus pilots should easily make 100-150k as FO just on guarantee. and CAs around 200-240k. That's fair for an LCC in my mind. That's net and on guarantee with ~15 days off. I don't think that's unreasonable
All LCC Airbus pilots should easily make 100-150k as FO just on guarantee. and CAs around 200-240k. That's fair for an LCC in my mind. That's net and on guarantee with ~15 days off. I don't think that's unreasonable
That works for me... Making what my peers make for doing the same job as my peers.
Sorry I was so off the mark on the new Allegiant rates. I should've been less lazy and looked them up before referencing them in my post.
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