DAL Poolie Info
#1401
Caveat, I've only flown the -88.
IMO, the limiting factor is the quality of the trips. Most guys that are flying anything other than the M88 or 717 and "maybe" the 320 currently, are enjoying a "little" bit better QOL trips than what is afforded on the 717 or M88 (lots of legs, hub turns, short overnights, limited geographical areas).
I was on the -88 for 3 years and didn't mind it at all when I was on it (came from the regionals and didn't know any different). Then I got on the ER and now on the 737. I shudder to think about going back to some of those trips (or flying the -88)! Believe me, I'd be a lot more senior on those aircraft, but that seniority doesn't buy me any QOL improvement (as I see it).
I'm holding off down bidding....
For the junior captains, there will always be guys that will upgrade ASAP. Those will be the takers. How junior it goes will depend on whether or not they open NYC717 (which I imagine they will). I'd say with the retirements coming up, that eventually, the -88 and 717 will go fairly junior for the most junior captain in NYC. Maybe in the 80% range on the seniority list? Maybe 85% in 7-8 years when there is massive turnover and you can get anything you want quickly? Who knows ?
IMO, the limiting factor is the quality of the trips. Most guys that are flying anything other than the M88 or 717 and "maybe" the 320 currently, are enjoying a "little" bit better QOL trips than what is afforded on the 717 or M88 (lots of legs, hub turns, short overnights, limited geographical areas).
I was on the -88 for 3 years and didn't mind it at all when I was on it (came from the regionals and didn't know any different). Then I got on the ER and now on the 737. I shudder to think about going back to some of those trips (or flying the -88)! Believe me, I'd be a lot more senior on those aircraft, but that seniority doesn't buy me any QOL improvement (as I see it).
I'm holding off down bidding....
For the junior captains, there will always be guys that will upgrade ASAP. Those will be the takers. How junior it goes will depend on whether or not they open NYC717 (which I imagine they will). I'd say with the retirements coming up, that eventually, the -88 and 717 will go fairly junior for the most junior captain in NYC. Maybe in the 80% range on the seniority list? Maybe 85% in 7-8 years when there is massive turnover and you can get anything you want quickly? Who knows ?
#1402
While the cockpit is crowded and noisy I am getting to the point where I want to get my flying in on one Transcon leg (5 hours+) and then I'm done - that results in a 6-7 hour duty day and plenty of time to rest, eat, exercise and be ready for the next day. Multiple legs, multiple preflights, maybe an A/C change, etc. makes for a long day on the M88/717 and even the 320 because it can't always do the coast to coast (why it's based in SLC and not LAX). To each his own.
#1403
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
Yeah its a never ending internal debate. Some say limits drive the need for staffing, while others say once limits are reached it just drives junior manning anyway. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Does Spirit have limits as well on junior manning? Is the current limit on 200% pay trips a management desire or a union desire? (I can see either case being made).
#1404
What does a 5-day trip look like vs a 737 lazy good for nothing trip look like?
Well this atypical but here are two trips of the same pay time on the 717 and 737: (and yes I can find worse trips on the 737 and a lot better trips on the 717 for the same pay mind you, it's just a little fun comparison given perceived rotation types)
B717
3-Day trip:
Except where noted the rest of the turn times are 39-44 minutes.
4-day:
DAY 1
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-ECP
ECP-ATL
ATL-EWR
DAY 2
EWR-ATL
ATL-JAN
DAY 3
JAN-ATL
ATL-ORD
ORD-ATL
ATL-SAV
DAY 4
SAV-ATL
ATL-TLH
TLH-ATL
ATL-PNS
PNS-ATL
22.25 Pay
737
3-Day 15.45 block trip:
Day 1:
ATL-SJC (13 hour downtown SFO overnight)
Day 2:
SFO-MSP
MSP-EWR (17 hour downtown New York overnight)
Day 3:
LGA-ATL4-Day Trip with 22.25 Pay:
Now, I do the 717 flying, I enjoy that kind of flying and the 717 is a great airplane for it. I'd enjoy the other flying too. Pick whatever works for you.
Well this atypical but here are two trips of the same pay time on the 717 and 737: (and yes I can find worse trips on the 737 and a lot better trips on the 717 for the same pay mind you, it's just a little fun comparison given perceived rotation types)
B717
3-Day trip:
Day 1:
ATL-MOB
MOB-ATL (1.54 sit)
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-SAV
Day 2:
SAV-ATL
ATL-EWR
Day 3:
EWR-ATL (1.38 sit)
ATL-HSV
HSV-ATL
ATL-JAN
JAN-ATL
15.45 PayATL-MOB
MOB-ATL (1.54 sit)
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-SAV
Day 2:
SAV-ATL
ATL-EWR
Day 3:
EWR-ATL (1.38 sit)
ATL-HSV
HSV-ATL
ATL-JAN
JAN-ATL
Except where noted the rest of the turn times are 39-44 minutes.
4-day:
DAY 1
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-ECP
ECP-ATL
ATL-EWR
DAY 2
EWR-ATL
ATL-JAN
DAY 3
JAN-ATL
ATL-ORD
ORD-ATL
ATL-SAV
DAY 4
SAV-ATL
ATL-TLH
TLH-ATL
ATL-PNS
PNS-ATL
737
3-Day 15.45 block trip:
Day 1:
ATL-SJC (13 hour downtown SFO overnight)
Day 2:
SFO-MSP
MSP-EWR (17 hour downtown New York overnight)
Day 3:
LGA-ATL
Day 1
ATL-SEA
Day 2
SEA-MSP
MSP-BOS
Day 3
BOS-MSP
MSP-SAN
Day 4
SAN-ATL
ATL-SEA
Day 2
SEA-MSP
MSP-BOS
Day 3
BOS-MSP
MSP-SAN
Day 4
SAN-ATL
Now, I do the 717 flying, I enjoy that kind of flying and the 717 is a great airplane for it. I'd enjoy the other flying too. Pick whatever works for you.
#1405
What does a 5-day trip look like vs a 737 lazy good for nothing trip look like?
Well this atypical but here are two trips of the same pay time on the 717 and 737: (and yes I can find worse trips on the 737 and a lot better trips on the 717 for the same pay mind you, it's just a little fun comparison given perceived rotation types)
B717
3-Day trip:
Except where noted the rest of the turn times are 39-44 minutes.
4-day:
DAY 1
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-ECP
ECP-ATL
ATL-EWR
DAY 2
EWR-ATL
ATL-JAN
DAY 3
JAN-ATL
ATL-ORD
ORD-ATL
ATL-SAV
DAY 4
SAV-ATL
ATL-TLH
TLH-ATL
ATL-PNS
PNS-ATL
22.25 Pay
737
3-Day 15.45 block trip:
Day 1:
ATL-SJC (13 hour downtown SFO overnight)
Day 2:
SFO-MSP
MSP-EWR (17 hour downtown New York overnight)
Day 3:
LGA-ATL4-Day Trip with 22.25 Pay:
Now, I do the 717 flying, I enjoy that kind of flying and the 717 is a great airplane for it. I'd enjoy the other flying too. Pick whatever works for you.
Well this atypical but here are two trips of the same pay time on the 717 and 737: (and yes I can find worse trips on the 737 and a lot better trips on the 717 for the same pay mind you, it's just a little fun comparison given perceived rotation types)
B717
3-Day trip:
Day 1:
ATL-MOB
MOB-ATL (1.54 sit)
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-SAV
Day 2:
SAV-ATL
ATL-EWR
Day 3:
EWR-ATL (1.38 sit)
ATL-HSV
HSV-ATL
ATL-JAN
JAN-ATL
15.45 PayATL-MOB
MOB-ATL (1.54 sit)
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-SAV
Day 2:
SAV-ATL
ATL-EWR
Day 3:
EWR-ATL (1.38 sit)
ATL-HSV
HSV-ATL
ATL-JAN
JAN-ATL
Except where noted the rest of the turn times are 39-44 minutes.
4-day:
DAY 1
ATL-GSP
GSP-ATL
ATL-ECP
ECP-ATL
ATL-EWR
DAY 2
EWR-ATL
ATL-JAN
DAY 3
JAN-ATL
ATL-ORD
ORD-ATL
ATL-SAV
DAY 4
SAV-ATL
ATL-TLH
TLH-ATL
ATL-PNS
PNS-ATL
737
3-Day 15.45 block trip:
Day 1:
ATL-SJC (13 hour downtown SFO overnight)
Day 2:
SFO-MSP
MSP-EWR (17 hour downtown New York overnight)
Day 3:
LGA-ATL
Day 1
ATL-SEA
Day 2
SEA-MSP
MSP-BOS
Day 3
BOS-MSP
MSP-SAN
Day 4
SAN-ATL
ATL-SEA
Day 2
SEA-MSP
MSP-BOS
Day 3
BOS-MSP
MSP-SAN
Day 4
SAN-ATL
Now, I do the 717 flying, I enjoy that kind of flying and the 717 is a great airplane for it. I'd enjoy the other flying too. Pick whatever works for you.
#1406
Heck, I was flying rotations like what the 717 is doing, to those same exact cities, except for EWR, on the Brasillia back in the mid 90's. Now I'm having flashbacks!
#1407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,723
#1410
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 73NB
Posts: 68
As to the various trip construction comparisons, I've been flying the same trips for 15 years. Done with it. Off to the 73 I go.
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