MikeB525

Question: does the ERJ/Legacy flight data recorder indicate the position of the transponder switch and/or whether the transponder is working correctly???

Follow up question: has the Brazilian government destroyed the FDR and CVR data to conceal their own lies?

jetblaster

Interesting question; for those who think that this is not likely, remember that the first B-737 to rudder hardover and crash--UAL 585 in Colorado Springs in 1991--was found to have a questionable PCU valve from the rudder system. IAW the process used by NTSB, the valve was sent...to Boeing, the manufacturer who could be sued if it was found their component was at fault.

The PCU valve was subsequently "lost" at Boeing, according to one ALPA Safety team member.

Oops.

Jetblaster

CE750

The scary thing is how many of us are out there flying these brazilian made airplanes.. Granted, they've been quite safe actually. But to think they're being built in what is in effect a 3rd world nation..

__________________
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AV8ER

Glad to see these guys are home. This kind of ties in with the transponder question. The Legacy has a TCAS right? So why didn't they get an RA?

9999

I was wondering about the TA/RA as well, or atleast a other or proximate indication of some sort?

emb145captain

Yeah because the 737 rudder problem (fatalities), DC10 slat and cargo door problem (fatalities) and numerous other non-Brazilian airframes have been so stellar?

The EMB135/145/BJ airframe has an excellent safety record and was actually designed by former Boeing engineers so before you make uninformed and ignorant comments you might do a bit of research.

Keep in mind the Legacy survived this accident. The Boeing did not.

11Fan

All due respect Captain, but two meters one way or the other may have produced the exact opposite outcome. Granted, it's clear you are defending your aircraft, and I can certainly appreciate that. It's the nature of the beast, whether you build them or you fly them.

I've hold the opinion that this accident wasn't about the aircraft, it was about the airspace. I'm actually worried about the increased air traffic for the 2016 Olympics

Regards,

11Fan

DrivingAloft

Well..... there's poverty in Brazil, sure.. but Brazil has been developing great technology and top notch quality in high tech products. Embraer has proven to build reliable and safe airplanes. I wouldn't start worrying about flying a brazilian jet any more than a canadian jet.

About the two pilots being back home, I'm also glad to hear that, but just consider the following: 150 people died in a freak accident with no clear answers to what happened up there. ATC f**up, specially with the faulty comm equipment, but there's TCAS to ultimately prevent these type of accidents. So, what everybody is wondering, is what tha heck happend to the transponder of the legacy? why was it off? Some suggest that the equipment failed, some others suggest that the pilot put his foot up and inadvertly turned the transponder off... nobody really knows.
That's what makes this accident extremely controversial and a lot of family members are extremely upset. I support these two pilots, but if I was family of one of the ones that perished in the 737, I'm not sure how would I feel about this whole deal.

I'm just saying there're always 2 sides of the story...

pipe

Maybe as part of the Olympic infrastructure buildup the Brazilian government will actually buy some radios that work, some SELCAL equipment, or maybe even get on board for the FANS/CPDLC/ADS program.

Or maybe they'll just keep sharing their handheld from Sporty's.

PIPE

emb145captain

You are certainly correct about the possible outcomes. Could have been the other way around.

There is a lot to learn from this accident and I think it represent a great opportunity for all of us to improve how we do things in the cockpit.

It is easy to get complacent and trust ATC but we all know that even in the US, ATC is not always covering your behind. Of course we as pilots like to place blame elsewhere and obviously the ATC system in Brazil is full of holes and lacks the kind of service/reliability we are accustomed to in the US, but let's be honest here folks:

Listening to the CVR there is plenty of blame to spread around, and in my opinion the Legacy crew is equally at fault along with ATC.

You don't fly around for 40 to 50 minutes without talking to somebody, even oceanic, unless you have CPDLC which they did not have.

As far as the TCAS/transponder situation goes, I don't see how you accidentally turn off the system with your foot or whatever, and then don't catch that while you are looking at this RMU screen while tuning in all those frequencies trying to reach ATC. Yes I realize it is a small screen but that is where a thorough scan comes into play. Most likely what happened here was the inadvertent OFF selection by the PIC while he was fiddling with the RMU but that is only my speculation. I guess only he knows if he turned it off and is obviously not going to admit to it. Or maybe the system faulted just prior to impact which is highly unlikely and not supported by the evidence.

At this point the crew should have established they were in a Lost Comm situation and followed procedures relative to the state they were flying over; in this case different procedures than in the US, which would have indicated they would descend to FL360.

The radio skills of the PIC also deserve scrutiny, as the PIC questions the SIC as to what the emergency frequency is.

What was the PIC doing out of the cockpit for 20 or so minutes? His lack of time in type should have kept him in the cockpit and paying attention to what was going on. He sounded like he had a very lax attitude to the entire goings-on in this cockpit. He basically shut down and was almost a hinderance to the SIC for the remainder of the flight as he fumbled with charts and identifiers, etc.

Thankfully the SIC has some experience in type and took charge. And thanks to a capable crew in the Polar cargo jet for their part.

All I know is next time I fly down there we are doing a one mile SLOP.