Do you fly constant MACH on the NAT Tracks?
04-17-2014, 06:25 AM
#41
Meh...
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: Nunya
Posts: 240
All well and good. What cracks me up is that one vector for traffic, once deviation for wx, or flying the FMC's optimum altitude but at the wrong place (considering wind) throws it all out the window 
As they say, sounds good, now go deal with the real world.
As for being surprised about pilots not being fully aware of the FMC functions, well, how much time was spent on the FMC at your place? Because at my place they showed us how to align the box, and enter the required data, in the sim. No precious class time was spend on the 5 W's about the FMC.
Grounds schools these days are crap, utter crap. Pared down to the minimum by bean-counters and encouraged by operations management because an ignorant pilot is easily duped by maintenance.
If a pilot in the modern world wants to know their aircraft well, it takes a lot of extra effort. I bought manuals and computer programs for systems for each new aircraft I fly and I put in a lot of time during cruise learning. I ask the "in the know" captains lots of questions.
Im as lazy as the next guy, but over the Pacific hours away from help and nothing but a 1930's radio to communicate with, I want to know what's going on with my aircraft!
Interesting thread.
As they say, sounds good, now go deal with the real world.
As for being surprised about pilots not being fully aware of the FMC functions, well, how much time was spent on the FMC at your place? Because at my place they showed us how to align the box, and enter the required data, in the sim. No precious class time was spend on the 5 W's about the FMC.
Grounds schools these days are crap, utter crap. Pared down to the minimum by bean-counters and encouraged by operations management because an ignorant pilot is easily duped by maintenance.
If a pilot in the modern world wants to know their aircraft well, it takes a lot of extra effort. I bought manuals and computer programs for systems for each new aircraft I fly and I put in a lot of time during cruise learning. I ask the "in the know" captains lots of questions.
Im as lazy as the next guy, but over the Pacific hours away from help and nothing but a 1930's radio to communicate with, I want to know what's going on with my aircraft!
Interesting thread.
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
LRC burns more fuel on average than Econ. At least with today's low cost index numbers.
This has been an interesting thread. It is truly amazing how many people do not understand what goes into cost index, ECON, Optimum Altitude, Max Altitude, and Recommended Altitude in the airplanes they fly.
That is not directed at you Scambo, but just a comment in general.
To be fair to the management lacky who penned the procedure it does say in the FCTM of one Boeing model:
"Because optimum altitude targets minimum cost when using cost index, and minimum fuel burn for all other modes, it can be a different altitude at the same cruise Mach, depending on whether the cruise Mach is based on cost index, or is manually entered as a selected speed. However, in either situation, optimum altitude continues to increase as weight decreases during the flight."
The difference is so insignificant that it might only provide any fuel burn reduction if one was operating in a block altitude and climbing in 100 foot increments within the block exactly when the FMC changes.
IMHO a lot more fuel could be saved by teaching pilots how to use Optimum and Recommended altitudes in the FMC versus the flight plan and paying a bit more attention to timely step climbs.
Further, does anyone here go into the FMC and reset the uplinked cruise temperature profile for the whole route of flight to give the FMC better information to produce it's output from?
Typhoonpilot
This has been an interesting thread. It is truly amazing how many people do not understand what goes into cost index, ECON, Optimum Altitude, Max Altitude, and Recommended Altitude in the airplanes they fly.
That is not directed at you Scambo, but just a comment in general.
To be fair to the management lacky who penned the procedure it does say in the FCTM of one Boeing model:
"Because optimum altitude targets minimum cost when using cost index, and minimum fuel burn for all other modes, it can be a different altitude at the same cruise Mach, depending on whether the cruise Mach is based on cost index, or is manually entered as a selected speed. However, in either situation, optimum altitude continues to increase as weight decreases during the flight."
The difference is so insignificant that it might only provide any fuel burn reduction if one was operating in a block altitude and climbing in 100 foot increments within the block exactly when the FMC changes.
IMHO a lot more fuel could be saved by teaching pilots how to use Optimum and Recommended altitudes in the FMC versus the flight plan and paying a bit more attention to timely step climbs.
Further, does anyone here go into the FMC and reset the uplinked cruise temperature profile for the whole route of flight to give the FMC better information to produce it's output from?
Typhoonpilot
04-17-2014, 06:36 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
Originally Posted by tsquare
Mostly what maddogmax said is correct. Our procedure is to code it in the FMS and let the magic do it's job. Yours sounds more like a procedure to keep you awake adjusting the autothrottles all night... 
;
04-17-2014, 09:06 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
Originally Posted by tsquare
My bad. Strike that word. Everything you said was correct. I couldn't go back and edit it out when I realized the mistake. 
Last edited by 80ktsClamp; 04-17-2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: quote fix
04-17-2014, 12:42 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Originally Posted by maddogmax
Originally Posted by tsquare
My bad. Strike that word. Everything you said was correct. I couldn't go back and edit it out when I realized the mistake.
Last edited by 80ktsClamp; 04-17-2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: quote fix
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