RockBottom

I just looked at the proposed merged AWA/US Air seniority list, and have a question. Why is it that the top 180 US Airways pilots gain the top seniority positions exclusively? Wasn't AWA the acquiring airline?

A320fumes

Where did you find the list? I heard it was DOH minus furlough.....I think that means I'm not even hired until DEC 2008. Over 1100 hundred of us have been furloughed since Jan 2002. Good job AWA. Godspeed USAirways.

RockBottom

I saw it in an email sent my way.

A320fumes

Never got the e-mail. I'm a 9/99 AAA hire. They treated us a lot better than many of my squadron buddies on furlough from other carriers after 9/11. DOH -Furlough is surprising, I won't be hired for another 2 years. Still the best Pilot group I've ever seen. I wish the combined US/AW the best, they've earned it.

CactusCrew

From what I saw of the East proposal ... FWIW ...

If you were hired 9/99, the list I saw indicated a VERY large class. 57 pilots with a DOH of 9/13/99 on the east side. Your previous seniority numbers were 4586-4692. On the proposed list a 9/99 hire date occupies seniority numbers 6000-6062 out of a total list of 6676.

Which places 9/99 east hires above approx 320 active AWA pilots hired later than 1999. I think the list even had wholly owned MDA pilots above some active Cactus pilots ... and the MOST senior AWA pilot appeared at # 899 on the combined list ... FWIW.

It is what it is, a proposal ... Neither side should hang their hat on it !

THANKS for the well wishes, we are ALL going to need lots of luck to hold this ship together. Hope you get called back sooner than you think !

Later, CC

A320fumes

CactusCrew:

I've read some of your previous post and think you seem well grounded and honest. I hope all works well for the new company; great guys from E & W. Just haven't been privy to much info. Thanks for your input.

swaayze

I think it's DOH adjusted for longevity, ie really "time in service" where the furloughees are concerned. But as was pointed out this means virtually nothing. No sense in wasting energy thinking about it at this point unless you have an impending recall, just wait and see what the arbitrator decides.

Typhoonpilot

Doesn't matter, the arbitrator is only looking at what is the most fair integration for all parties. USAirways has been in business since the 1930s, while AWA only started in the 1980s. As a result the most senior AWA pilot was hired well after the most senior USAirways pilot.

The most senior USAirways pilot is an international widebody captain while the most senior AWA pilot is a domestic narrowbody captain. The top 1000 USAirways pilots will be gone in 9 years. The USAirways merger commitee takes this into account with conditions and restrictions in the proposal. Of the 3700 or so active USAirways pilots only 1300 will still be around after 2015. The AWA pilot group will experience turbo growth as a result of the massive East side retirements.

Condition and Restrictions that last through 2014 will ensure that no side is unfairly disadvataged. It guarantees captain positions to current AWA pilots in PHX and LAS.

The USAirways propopsal is very fair. Of course there will be those unhappy with it, myself included. In the USAirways proposal I would be junior to an AWA pilot hired 10 years after me!! I would have been number 10 on the USAirways list at retirement. I would have been a widebody international captain for at least the last five years of my career. If the USAirways proposal goes through that would be reduced to the last two years.

The majority of AWA pilots will make out like bandits in this merger. The majority of U pilots will only hold what they have until retirement.

If you look at the arbitrator's previous decisions you will find that the financial strength of the respective airlines is almost immaterial. The non-merged career expectations are far more important.


Typhoonpilot

CactusCrew

Doesn't matter, the arbitrator is only looking at what is the most fair integration for all parties.

That's what we ALL hope for anyway ...

USAirways has been in business since the 1930s, while AWA only started in the 1980s. As a result the most senior AWA pilot was hired well after the most senior USAirways pilot.

TRUE

The most senior USAirways pilot is an international widebody captain while the most senior AWA pilot is a domestic narrowbody captain. The top 1000 USAirways pilots will be gone in 9 years.

Is it the TOP 1000, or just 1000 pilots ? ... SEMANTICS maybe, but 1000 pilots leaving does not mean there will be 1000 captain vacancies. Some of these are surely FOs, which sometimes means very little movement if any. Maybe a minor point, but just trying to understand the facts.

The USAirways merger commitee takes this into account with conditions and restrictions in the proposal. Of the 3700 or so active USAirways pilots only 1300 will still be around after 2015. The AWA pilot group will experience turbo growth as a result of the massive East side retirements.

I hope so, BUT ... the last time I flew in USAir colors my 1.5 year upgrade turned into an 8 year marathon in the right seat. Backpedaled and treaded water with the best of them. I was employed by one of the wholly owned regionals from 1989-99.

So I take ANY career forecasts with USAir involved with a grain of salt. I don't expect to upgrade for another 10 years now, even if the entire USAir list was somehow stapled to the end of the AWA list ... but that's just me ...


Condition and Restrictions that last through 2014 will ensure that no side is unfairly disadvataged. It guarantees captain positions to current AWA pilots in PHX and LAS.

The USAirways propopsal is very fair. Of course there will be those unhappy with it, myself included. In the USAirways proposal I would be junior to an AWA pilot hired 10 years after me!!


I assume you missed out on YEARS of LONGEVITY during the furloughs that lasted 1990-98 or so. I presume that you and the comparable AWA FO would have about the same amount of time pulling gear for the company. You just took a LONG vacation in the middle of your time served ...


I would have been number 10 on the USAirways list at retirement. I would have been a widebody international captain for at least the last five years of my career. If the USAirways proposal goes through that would be reduced to the last two years.


As long as there was a company to retire from. NEITHER group can look beyond 5 years and predict their outcome. Sad but true, for nearly EVERY major airline today. Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff ... some far greater than USAir and Cactus have breathed their last breath a long time ago ... FWIW


The majority of AWA pilots will make out like bandits in this merger. The majority of U pilots will only hold what they have until retirement.

If you look at the arbitrator's previous decisions you will find that the financial strength of the respective airlines is almost immaterial. The non-merged career expectations are far more important.


I "expected" to upgrade in 2007 prior to the merger. I have treaded water as a 50% FO from the date it was announced. Now I don't forsee an upgrade for at least 5 years, maybe more. Unless of course I can hold one of the E190 slots from the prior arbitration award. And that is a lateral move, money wise, for most FOs ...

But I'll roll with whatever comes seniority wise ... it is out of our hands anyway.

Now about these contract negotiations ... don't get me started !!!!


Later, CC

CVG767A

CC- Thats the most well reasoned, fair, and unbiased appraisal of the list integration that I've seen so far.