How many military expected to go to majors?
09-11-2014, 03:18 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by MikeF16
I spoke with the USAF chief of fighter manning last week, he doesn't know the exact answer to that question which probably means nobody knows. He can tell who has gotten out/dropped papers, but there is really no way to predict what people who haven't shown their hand will do. No direct quotes, but I got the feeling he is well beyond extremely concerned. I joked that this year he's paying pilots to leave and next year he'll be paying to bring us back, and if my poker face reading skills are up to par, I probably wasn't too far off the mark. I personally know 4 sitting/graduated squadron commanders who either have, or will drop papers when the time is right. That said, not everybody who leaves the military will go to the majors.
On a related side note, a friend of mine with buds at AFPC just dropped papers to avoid a 365. His AFPC contact told him that for every 365 they try to assign, on average there are 25 officers who wriggle their way out before they actually assign it. That includes a large number of individuals who choose to separate/retire instead of spend a year making sure the general gets his 12 point helvetica on the 1st sub-bullet of each slide.
On a related side note, a friend of mine with buds at AFPC just dropped papers to avoid a 365. His AFPC contact told him that for every 365 they try to assign, on average there are 25 officers who wriggle their way out before they actually assign it. That includes a large number of individuals who choose to separate/retire instead of spend a year making sure the general gets his 12 point helvetica on the 1st sub-bullet of each slide.
Originally Posted by GunshipGuy
Those who get out after 20 years + are more around 30-40% likely to go for an airline, IMO. A lot of them are non-current from staff jobs and can make good money as contractors doing the same job they did when on active duty. Some go in a completely different direction. But in general they're going to get a job and higher salary than what the 8-14 year member receives. Others may have better metrics, but this is my take on it.
Last edited by CruisenAv8r; 09-11-2014 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Update
09-12-2014, 06:29 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,503
Originally Posted by waldo135
Rumor is an O-6 just retired from the Pentagon after years of not flying and was fired - I think by United. Network and all things are possible.
09-13-2014, 08:16 AM
#36
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: Military
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Albief15
I am stunned at the number of guys who ask for help--many from the front line platforms like the F-22 and B-2. Even some of the golden boys are done with all the reindeer games...
Lots of guys I know went for a "safe" government contractor job vice a "risky" airline job over the last few years. Most of them worry about their jobs a lot more than my airline bubbas worry about theirs. Lots of positions were converted to GS with a corresponding 30-40% pay cut.
Its not for everyone, but I don't want to be home every night. I enjoy layovers in Paris, Honolulu, Brazil, New York City, etc. I like having ZERO additional duties outside the cockpit. I never want to wear a badge to go sit in a cubicle somewhere. But we are all different. However, I do think anyone hired at a legacy in this wave has a very unique opportunity to advance at a rate unseen for 20 years.
The key to success and stability is not the name on the paycheck, its having a skill set you continually hone and a network that you use to stay abreast of what is going on. I've got a lot of friends in the airline world who love the jobs, but also do some consulting or other endeavors on the side. If they end up getting furloughed at some point, they'll have other skills set to parlay into employment somewhere.
UPS was the "most secure job in industry" in 2000. They furloughed 200 guys. I had friends scoff a buddy who went to Alaska (vice AA, DAL, UAL) in the 90s because he knew he wanted to live in Alaska. He accepted the risk of a merger and the lower pay potential. Of all my old F-15 bubbas, he was the FIRST one to make captain at a legacy. Make educated choices, but understand their are now guarantees.
Me? After 12 years at FedEx, I still keep my logbook updated. I work hard on our family business. I hope to never need to ask again for a job, but I'll be ready if it happens.
Lots of guys I know went for a "safe" government contractor job vice a "risky" airline job over the last few years. Most of them worry about their jobs a lot more than my airline bubbas worry about theirs. Lots of positions were converted to GS with a corresponding 30-40% pay cut.
Its not for everyone, but I don't want to be home every night. I enjoy layovers in Paris, Honolulu, Brazil, New York City, etc. I like having ZERO additional duties outside the cockpit. I never want to wear a badge to go sit in a cubicle somewhere. But we are all different. However, I do think anyone hired at a legacy in this wave has a very unique opportunity to advance at a rate unseen for 20 years.
The key to success and stability is not the name on the paycheck, its having a skill set you continually hone and a network that you use to stay abreast of what is going on. I've got a lot of friends in the airline world who love the jobs, but also do some consulting or other endeavors on the side. If they end up getting furloughed at some point, they'll have other skills set to parlay into employment somewhere.
UPS was the "most secure job in industry" in 2000. They furloughed 200 guys. I had friends scoff a buddy who went to Alaska (vice AA, DAL, UAL) in the 90s because he knew he wanted to live in Alaska. He accepted the risk of a merger and the lower pay potential. Of all my old F-15 bubbas, he was the FIRST one to make captain at a legacy. Make educated choices, but understand their are now guarantees.
Me? After 12 years at FedEx, I still keep my logbook updated. I work hard on our family business. I hope to never need to ask again for a job, but I'll be ready if it happens.
09-13-2014, 10:06 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 291
Originally Posted by Packrat
Probably because the airlines recognize the fact that military flight training is standardized and requires people with a great deal of dedication and discipline.
With civilian trained pilots, you can never be sure what you're getting. There are plenty of license mills that will pass anyone who can pay for the training.
With civilian trained pilots, you can never be sure what you're getting. There are plenty of license mills that will pass anyone who can pay for the training.
Originally Posted by lear700pilot
Just curious, would you not say that you can't get a standardized pilot from the civ side? Working for a regional environment is quite structured in itself. Plus, anyone that does flight training in the 141 environment follows structure as well. Really, any pilot whether civ or mil can be great or not so great.
For many such as myself, I had to pay for my training. I didn't pay money and get handed license. I had to work to pay for them in the process. I have no failed check rides in my whole 15 year training record. There are a lot of great stick and rudder skilled pilots in the civilian side.
Your last paragraph seems to state that if one is civilian that individual is just not up to par.
For many such as myself, I had to pay for my training. I didn't pay money and get handed license. I had to work to pay for them in the process. I have no failed check rides in my whole 15 year training record. There are a lot of great stick and rudder skilled pilots in the civilian side.
Your last paragraph seems to state that if one is civilian that individual is just not up to par.
For the record, I did flight at Illinois, flew skydivers in a TwOtter and B-90 before two assignments in the A-10; believe me when I say that I've seen the batter made in both kitchens, from my fellow Illini to American Flyers alums and Part 61'ers of all walks.
Based on your post, you probably didn't go to one of the CFI puppy mills. Good on you. Many did, and they are rising through the ranks along side of you.
09-13-2014, 10:50 AM
#38
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Originally Posted by Hawg
Shack Albief! As flying hour programs dwindle, dudes don't want to fly a desk and get swamped with additional duties. Times have drastically changed from when I was an LT wingman in Korea with a 3 month look back of 45 sorties, making RAP in a week. I'm in an FTU now barely making my 5 sortie BMC, flying a desk and reading/writing email. I joined to fly airplanes and soon the AF will tell me I can't with IDE/Staff, so then I will go find a job flying airplanes. The amount of extra qweep is mind blowing, and with crappy leadership, dudes are just fed up. Less people in a squadron, less flying hours for the year, still a decent amount of TDY's, and more computer work = thanks but no thanks. I long for the day of shutting a jet off and walking away. I got to kill a **** load of people downrange...now I'm ready to move on before the the "needs of the Air Force" get me.
09-18-2014, 11:36 PM
#39
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: C-17A Pilot
Posts: 5
I agree with the majority of the posts here. I will also add that there is a variation in the quality you get from my military bubbas when you start talking CRM and crew concept. Some folks have a hard time "playing well with others" if you will when they have been their own master for so long.
That being said professionals are professionals and goobers are goobers. No matter where you got your experience, you will run into both types.
That being said professionals are professionals and goobers are goobers. No matter where you got your experience, you will run into both types.
09-19-2014, 08:37 AM
#40
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 27
There's two main advantage mil pilots have over civ pilots and neither have to do with flying skill.
First, the military network of former colleagues and squadron bubbas is HUGE when it comes to hiring. There are plenty of qualified applicants from both mil and civ. Who you know is more important than credentials. Everyone is qualified but you have to get separated from the herd. The military friends network simply operates better than the civilian one.
Second, the airlines desire military applicants because they are a known quantity. Military pilots will, generally, color between the lines and if they do deviate from SOP they'll usually have a good reason why they did. This same attitude applies to following all nonflying company policy. Most civilian pilots will too but if someone is a rogue character and general policy scofflaw my experience has been they are probably from a civilian only background.
All else being equal, IMO, this is why a military pilot will get the nod over a civilian pilot. It usually has nothing to do with actual flying. In reality the military flying skillset doesn't translate well to the airline world. It's the human consistancy of the applicant that matters, not warrior skills.
First, the military network of former colleagues and squadron bubbas is HUGE when it comes to hiring. There are plenty of qualified applicants from both mil and civ. Who you know is more important than credentials. Everyone is qualified but you have to get separated from the herd. The military friends network simply operates better than the civilian one.
Second, the airlines desire military applicants because they are a known quantity. Military pilots will, generally, color between the lines and if they do deviate from SOP they'll usually have a good reason why they did. This same attitude applies to following all nonflying company policy. Most civilian pilots will too but if someone is a rogue character and general policy scofflaw my experience has been they are probably from a civilian only background.
All else being equal, IMO, this is why a military pilot will get the nod over a civilian pilot. It usually has nothing to do with actual flying. In reality the military flying skillset doesn't translate well to the airline world. It's the human consistancy of the applicant that matters, not warrior skills.
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