Stay at EK or go to UAL?
11-25-2014, 09:16 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 335
Emiratesfatigue, I made the jump from EK to DAL. I posted something a while back on Prune. But here is my take on it:
"I am a former EK minion. I was hired by a US legacy back in October. I was fortunate enough to interview the second week they started inviting people, after a very long stagnation. A few weeks after that, I received the final offer but had to wait until March for a class date. They were still processing flow through pilots from regional airlines which had contractual agreements. Street guys like me had to wait. It sort of worked itself out because EK required three month notice. I heard of another EK pilot who just recently resigned but could only give one month notice. EK worked with him and he ended up being fine.
I was the first ME pilot hired off the street. They did have a little difficulty getting records form EK. In the end, it sort of solved itself, paving the way for more applicants. I know of at least two who already interviewed, and both were successful. One is joining us in August. They seem to know a lot more than one might think about various international carriers. US legacies are very specific in what they are looking for, and I can assure you that EK pilots are well viewed during the interview process. The fact that, besides me, my entire interview class (8 pilots) were all ex military (US Air Force, NAVY, etc…), is a validation of the quality of pilots EK is fortunate to employ (EK pilots in general. Not trying to come off as being pretentious. Only stating facts).
Training here was more relaxed and transpired American pragmatism. The company (US Carrier) culture is completely different. For example:
Operationally speaking, I find them to be significantly more practical. I will attribute this to a cultural difference between the ways things are handled in the States, in general, versus overseas. In light of the sheer number of nationalities working at EK, how can one blame Emirates for being over attentive to small details?
One shocking cultural change for me was the fact that they (US Carrier) want you to "fly"
here. By that, I mean that a large portion of the approaches I flew and was evaluated on during OE and simulator training were without Automation (AP and AT). Now this might seem like a minor detail, but is a great illustration of something more significant in their corporate culture: Trust in their pilots. Having been on line for a short while, I never felt like "staying away from the office" was in the captains’ threat error management strategies. As it turns out, it creates a less stressful and more efficient operation. In short, they are truly a captain’s airline. And that is a big cultural difference.
The chief pilots are there to help. Their offices are literally inside the pilot lounges and they encourage us to visit them all the time. New hires are required to check in with them at least four times during their first year, just to make sure they are getting settled with their new jobs. They are not here to police us.
There is a certain camaraderie here that I did not quiet feel at EK. It seems like everyone is sort of looking out for each other, including management.
I will say that EK should truly invest in their pilot workforce. Nothing is free, not even pilots. I read somewhere on this thread something about most US pilots trying to go back. What about Europeans or Australians? The reality is, for some countries, things are not so great in the industry. But historical data dictates that they will eventually turn around. Why would a French pilot leave Montpellier if he can work for AF? It is only a matter of time. For example, EK’s stubbornness in not opening overseas bases or limiting one to 5 days off in a row is idiotically short-sighted. Cathay does international basing, and so does Korean. Why not EK? Ego? They really ought to set it aside. This will become a buyers’ market. It’s all about supply and demand.
Hope it helps.
"I am a former EK minion. I was hired by a US legacy back in October. I was fortunate enough to interview the second week they started inviting people, after a very long stagnation. A few weeks after that, I received the final offer but had to wait until March for a class date. They were still processing flow through pilots from regional airlines which had contractual agreements. Street guys like me had to wait. It sort of worked itself out because EK required three month notice. I heard of another EK pilot who just recently resigned but could only give one month notice. EK worked with him and he ended up being fine.
I was the first ME pilot hired off the street. They did have a little difficulty getting records form EK. In the end, it sort of solved itself, paving the way for more applicants. I know of at least two who already interviewed, and both were successful. One is joining us in August. They seem to know a lot more than one might think about various international carriers. US legacies are very specific in what they are looking for, and I can assure you that EK pilots are well viewed during the interview process. The fact that, besides me, my entire interview class (8 pilots) were all ex military (US Air Force, NAVY, etc…), is a validation of the quality of pilots EK is fortunate to employ (EK pilots in general. Not trying to come off as being pretentious. Only stating facts).
Training here was more relaxed and transpired American pragmatism. The company (US Carrier) culture is completely different. For example:
Operationally speaking, I find them to be significantly more practical. I will attribute this to a cultural difference between the ways things are handled in the States, in general, versus overseas. In light of the sheer number of nationalities working at EK, how can one blame Emirates for being over attentive to small details?
One shocking cultural change for me was the fact that they (US Carrier) want you to "fly"
here. By that, I mean that a large portion of the approaches I flew and was evaluated on during OE and simulator training were without Automation (AP and AT). Now this might seem like a minor detail, but is a great illustration of something more significant in their corporate culture: Trust in their pilots. Having been on line for a short while, I never felt like "staying away from the office" was in the captains’ threat error management strategies. As it turns out, it creates a less stressful and more efficient operation. In short, they are truly a captain’s airline. And that is a big cultural difference.
The chief pilots are there to help. Their offices are literally inside the pilot lounges and they encourage us to visit them all the time. New hires are required to check in with them at least four times during their first year, just to make sure they are getting settled with their new jobs. They are not here to police us.
There is a certain camaraderie here that I did not quiet feel at EK. It seems like everyone is sort of looking out for each other, including management.
I will say that EK should truly invest in their pilot workforce. Nothing is free, not even pilots. I read somewhere on this thread something about most US pilots trying to go back. What about Europeans or Australians? The reality is, for some countries, things are not so great in the industry. But historical data dictates that they will eventually turn around. Why would a French pilot leave Montpellier if he can work for AF? It is only a matter of time. For example, EK’s stubbornness in not opening overseas bases or limiting one to 5 days off in a row is idiotically short-sighted. Cathay does international basing, and so does Korean. Why not EK? Ego? They really ought to set it aside. This will become a buyers’ market. It’s all about supply and demand.
Hope it helps.
11-26-2014, 03:29 AM
#52
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by badflaps
I was afraid a sharp eyed iggle would pick that up. Due to conditions beyond my control, my retirement disappeared.
we are talking beans and rice here. Today is 78 and sunny. Y'all come. Delta flies on Sat. It basically is a cheap Cayman with fresh water.
we are talking beans and rice here. Today is 78 and sunny. Y'all come. Delta flies on Sat. It basically is a cheap Cayman with fresh water.If my wife would allow it, I'd be commuting from C.A. already. She's a chicken. Idk why.
11-26-2014, 07:08 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,724
Originally Posted by scambo1
I think you and shiz should talk.
If my wife would allow it, I'd be commuting from C.A. already. She's a chicken. Idk why.
If my wife would allow it, I'd be commuting from C.A. already. She's a chicken. Idk why.
Can't be too bad, there is an active int'l guy teaching scuba part time at one of the resorts. He told one the agents that he was coming down to be an old retired curmudgeon skipper.....She told him he was too late....
11-26-2014, 01:32 PM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Major Airline pilot retirements.
The facts from the APC data - 2014-2023 age based retirements:
Delta 4780 retirements / 11723 pilots = 40.8%
United 4398 retirements / 12505 pilots = 35.2%
American 3704 retirements / 11357 pilots = 32.6%
Looking ahead to the year 2024 (and dropping 2014), big jump at AAL and DAL, not so much UAL.
DAL 46.6%
UAL 35.7%
AAL 47.6%
The facts from the APC data - 2014-2023 age based retirements:
Delta 4780 retirements / 11723 pilots = 40.8%
United 4398 retirements / 12505 pilots = 35.2%
American 3704 retirements / 11357 pilots = 32.6%
Looking ahead to the year 2024 (and dropping 2014), big jump at AAL and DAL, not so much UAL.
DAL 46.6%
UAL 35.7%
AAL 47.6%
11-26-2014, 06:17 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
You don't hear much about guys wanting to get hired at Southwest these days.
11-26-2014, 08:40 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by emiratesfatigue
I am currently a B777 Captain at Emirates. To say things at this airline are going downhill is a bit of an understatement, it's more like they are going off a cliff. In the last 6 years it has gone from working 70 hours a month to 90 and they have ignored the pilots contract about overtime and have completely stopped paying it. A lot of US pilots here are looking to go back to the US majors. I am just wondering if that is a good idea. So here is the questions for any UAL pilots out there. Go do the interview at UAL, or forget about it and stay at EK?
11-27-2014, 06:04 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 93
3 years ago, I left EK after 15 1/2 years and while I left for a job with some risk (not a legacy), I have not had one minute of doubt or regret. I think that after some time there, we begin to minimize what sh!theads they can be sometimes just to preserve our own sanity. You owe it to yourself and your family to at least give returning home some real consideration.
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