F9 discussion.
12-20-2014, 03:02 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by Firsttimeflyer
I'll say that since I've been on line I've had a pay issue every single month and it has always been in the company's favor and my emails take forever to get a response and a phone call has never been returned.
12-21-2014, 08:57 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Barley
They know it's a train wreck. They recently brought in a company that automates payroll and provides tailored software. They've been using a spreadsheet. Yes, a spreadsheet. The new system should go online soon.
The CBA contains language regarding the automation of trip splitting. It was supposed to be completed by 2008. They only missed that target by seven years.
The problem isn't a spreadsheet. Anyone coming to work at F9 needs to realize that not only are we the lowest paid Airbus operators in the world but the one person payroll department believes we are over compensated.
Imagine working for any company in any industry and expecting a payroll deposit into your checking account based upon an online summary of your credit for the applicable pay period. On payday your deposit is $100 short, or $1000 short, even $10,000 short. Payroll never advised you of the shortage in advance even though they knew you were expecting a different amount. You obviously attempt to contact Payroll via phone and email and they ignore your requests...everytime. Sound unacceptable? Unimaginable? Unprofessional?
It happens at Frontier twice a month, every month.
12-22-2014, 05:26 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by zoooropa
soon?
The cba contains language regarding the automation of trip splitting. It was supposed to be completed by 2008. They only missed that target by seven years.
The problem isn't a spreadsheet. Anyone coming to work at f9 needs to realize that not only are we the lowest paid airbus operators in the world but the one person payroll department believes we are over compensated.
Imagine working for any company in any industry and expecting a payroll deposit into your checking account based upon an online summary of your credit for the applicable pay period. On payday your deposit is $100 short, or $1000 short, even $10,000 short. Payroll never advised you of the shortage in advance even though they knew you were expecting a different amount. You obviously attempt to contact payroll via phone and email and they ignore your requests...everytime. Sound unacceptable? Unimaginable? Unprofessional?
It happens at frontier twice a month, every month.
The cba contains language regarding the automation of trip splitting. It was supposed to be completed by 2008. They only missed that target by seven years.
The problem isn't a spreadsheet. Anyone coming to work at f9 needs to realize that not only are we the lowest paid airbus operators in the world but the one person payroll department believes we are over compensated.
Imagine working for any company in any industry and expecting a payroll deposit into your checking account based upon an online summary of your credit for the applicable pay period. On payday your deposit is $100 short, or $1000 short, even $10,000 short. Payroll never advised you of the shortage in advance even though they knew you were expecting a different amount. You obviously attempt to contact payroll via phone and email and they ignore your requests...everytime. Sound unacceptable? Unimaginable? Unprofessional?
It happens at frontier twice a month, every month.
bingo!^^^^^
12-22-2014, 04:01 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Aero1900
Oh boy...
First of all, as with any company working under a contract, it is important that the work group holds the company to the contract. We are no different at Frontier. FAPA needs to hold the company to it, and so do the pilots. I agree with the op 100%
However, I have a much different opinion on the way we are treated, and want to give my response to the whine fest.
I have never been 'abused' or 'ripped off by the company.' I have never been shorted in pay. The one time there was a mistake on my pay, it was fixed by the company without a fight. I simply sent an email and my pay credit was restored that day.
When Frontier went into bankruptcy in 2008, the company and the union signed a concessionary contract. That's just how it works. Happens at every single company that goes through a bankruptcy. We are no different. The union signed the contract with set snapbacks. We agreed to them, and signed off on them. We can't start complaining about it now. Yes, our pay is below average. That's just how it goes. Contracts are long term agreements. Things change, while the contract is in effect. We need to fight very hard on our next contract, but you can't say that the company is somehow ripping us off right now. Contracts is a contract. Get over it. Be gratefully they agreed to give us snapbacks at all. I don't know of any other airline that ever got snapbacks. When United when in the Chapter 11, they didn't get snapbacks. They just waited until they could negotiate a new contract.
As far as contract violations go, you have to remember that we were represented by the IBT for the last few years. FAPA has been working hard to fix issues and they are getting fixed. Things are being resolved. The loss of trip rig for pilot change to the a trip has been fixed, for example.
We dont stay in 'crap' hotels. Every hotel we stay in is nice. Yes, some of them are near the airport and there is not a whole lot around. Welcome to working for an airline. Get over it.
I really feel your pain in having to park across the street from the GO... what a horrible inconvenience that is... for the whole 2 days a year you will be there. I can't imagine letting the people that work at the GO 5 days a week park in the GO parking lot. I think they should have to park across the street while the pilots that are there 2 days a year get to park right out front. (hopefully that come across as sarcastic) I can't even believe you are complaining about the parking at the GO. Get over it. Its right across the street...
Frontier is a ULCC. We are not going to be compensated at the same rate as Delta which serves $5,000/ticket First Class passengers. But guess what? Delta pilots have to work on Chistmas, and they might even have to stay at a hotel that isn't right downtonw. In fact, I see Delta pilots at lots of our same hotels!!! Those poor Delta pilots.... slumming it with Frontier pilots at Crown Plazas and Marriots.
Lets be honest here, flying an Airbus is not exactly the hardest job in the world. Yes, I'll be flying on Christmas this year.. bummer. But I knew that was a possiblity when I took a job flying for an airline. I signed up for Frontier knowing damn well what the contract is like. We will get a better one someday, but for now, it is what it is. Frontier is still alive today, and hiring pilots and growing. The time will come to fight for a better contract, and I'll be right there fighting along side the rest of the pilots. But in the meantime I'll survive the 45 second walk from the parking lot to the GO and I'll survive my stay the the Crown Plaza hotel with all the other airline pilots from all the other airlines. Frontier has treated me very well. Never screwed me out of a penny. I'm happy to have the job.
And lastly, if you aren't willing to work on Christmas, you probably picked the wrong job. Last time I check, every airline in the world flies on Christmas.
First of all, as with any company working under a contract, it is important that the work group holds the company to the contract. We are no different at Frontier. FAPA needs to hold the company to it, and so do the pilots. I agree with the op 100%
However, I have a much different opinion on the way we are treated, and want to give my response to the whine fest.
I have never been 'abused' or 'ripped off by the company.' I have never been shorted in pay. The one time there was a mistake on my pay, it was fixed by the company without a fight. I simply sent an email and my pay credit was restored that day.
When Frontier went into bankruptcy in 2008, the company and the union signed a concessionary contract. That's just how it works. Happens at every single company that goes through a bankruptcy. We are no different. The union signed the contract with set snapbacks. We agreed to them, and signed off on them. We can't start complaining about it now. Yes, our pay is below average. That's just how it goes. Contracts are long term agreements. Things change, while the contract is in effect. We need to fight very hard on our next contract, but you can't say that the company is somehow ripping us off right now. Contracts is a contract. Get over it. Be gratefully they agreed to give us snapbacks at all. I don't know of any other airline that ever got snapbacks. When United when in the Chapter 11, they didn't get snapbacks. They just waited until they could negotiate a new contract.
As far as contract violations go, you have to remember that we were represented by the IBT for the last few years. FAPA has been working hard to fix issues and they are getting fixed. Things are being resolved. The loss of trip rig for pilot change to the a trip has been fixed, for example.
We dont stay in 'crap' hotels. Every hotel we stay in is nice. Yes, some of them are near the airport and there is not a whole lot around. Welcome to working for an airline. Get over it.
I really feel your pain in having to park across the street from the GO... what a horrible inconvenience that is... for the whole 2 days a year you will be there. I can't imagine letting the people that work at the GO 5 days a week park in the GO parking lot. I think they should have to park across the street while the pilots that are there 2 days a year get to park right out front. (hopefully that come across as sarcastic) I can't even believe you are complaining about the parking at the GO. Get over it. Its right across the street...
Frontier is a ULCC. We are not going to be compensated at the same rate as Delta which serves $5,000/ticket First Class passengers. But guess what? Delta pilots have to work on Chistmas, and they might even have to stay at a hotel that isn't right downtonw. In fact, I see Delta pilots at lots of our same hotels!!! Those poor Delta pilots.... slumming it with Frontier pilots at Crown Plazas and Marriots.
Lets be honest here, flying an Airbus is not exactly the hardest job in the world. Yes, I'll be flying on Christmas this year.. bummer. But I knew that was a possiblity when I took a job flying for an airline. I signed up for Frontier knowing damn well what the contract is like. We will get a better one someday, but for now, it is what it is. Frontier is still alive today, and hiring pilots and growing. The time will come to fight for a better contract, and I'll be right there fighting along side the rest of the pilots. But in the meantime I'll survive the 45 second walk from the parking lot to the GO and I'll survive my stay the the Crown Plaza hotel with all the other airline pilots from all the other airlines. Frontier has treated me very well. Never screwed me out of a penny. I'm happy to have the job.
And lastly, if you aren't willing to work on Christmas, you probably picked the wrong job. Last time I check, every airline in the world flies on Christmas.
12-22-2014, 09:30 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 93
Aero1900, a lot of us who got hired around 2005, 2006, 2007 came to F9 with a great contract and pay better than United and CAL. The benefits were better and we weren't an ULCC. F9 was a great place to work back then. That's why I came here.
12-23-2014, 04:05 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by Little kitten
Do you think Frontier will get better?
12-23-2014, 04:33 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Little kitten
Do you think Frontier will get better?
Indigo only cares about one thing, money. A consultant told FAPA back in 2012 that Seigel only cares about three things; 1. Money. 2. Money. and 3. Money.
If Indigo and Seigel make more money at the expense of the pilot group so be it. F9 is owned by a group of pirates. These guys don't want to manage an airline long term. They want to extract as much money out of this enterprise as possible and then move on to the next project.
I was talking awhile back about this to another F9 pilot and I used Halloween trick-or-treaters as an example. On Halloween the very first trick or treater approaches Indigo's house only to have his bag of candy stolen by Indigo. Indigo proceeds to distribute the candy to the next trick or treaters. At the end of the night Indigo managed to give out candy to everyone without having to use any of their own candy. Then one last trick or treater rings the bell right before the night ends. Indigo could easily ignore the door bell, halloween is over, but they can't help themselves. They open the door, steal the candy, slam the door and laugh maniacally. Indigo doesn't even like candy, they simply automatically revert to what they know...taking.
12-23-2014, 07:01 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
I have a different analogy. You're sinking into quicksand and just as your head is about to go under along comes a strong stranger with a reputation. He offers to pull you out on the one condition that you become his slave. You recall that this stranger once had a slave that eventually was set free. In your desperation for life, you agree. You're pulled out and put squarely on your feet, but now you must allow the stranger to exact his payment from you, until he is satiated, at which time he will set you free. The question is, will you be a shell of the man you once were when he is done? He didn't save you out of kindness, it was transactional, so you owe him no gratitude. Your duty now is to get through this indignity with your soul intact, and preserve whats left of your self respect. Into your servitude you realize he is harsher than you imagined, but you are alive! Nevertheless, you cannot allow yourself to be exploited beyond what is absolutely necessary in this obligatory evil.
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