Out of Domicile Open Time pick ups
02-27-2015, 07:17 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by Kiwiflygirl
Corperalcleg, please review Section 24 of your contract.
My thread is a poll of other airline practices, not an analysis of the what I can only assume you are doing.
My thread is a poll of other airline practices, not an analysis of the what I can only assume you are doing.
Sounds to me like you need some more education on your own contract.
02-27-2015, 07:22 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,434
Originally Posted by Smokey23
Elaborating on what Thunder said...
At SWA we cannot "drop" trips. We have to post them for give-away in the hopes that another pilot will pick them up. Give-away trips go first-come, first serve with no regard for seniority or domicile.
For company open-time trips, out-of-domicile pilots are junior to all in-domicile pilots regardless of system seniority.
So the challenge boils down to trying to give away your trips out of the junior base (which few will want unless they are turns or 2-day trips, preferably off the weekends), then trying to find trips available for give-away out of your desired (presumably more senior) domicile, which are harder to come by because the domicile is senior. Our Lance Captains (capt-qualified FOs) live this drama every month between seats (and possibly domiciles, too) as they try to get rid of their FO trips and pick up CA trips where possible.
Now with the increased seasonality of our schedules throughout the year (and the corresponding manning shifts), the balance between ease of giving-way and ease of picking-up is constantly in flux depending upon which season of the year we're in. Plan accordingly....
At SWA we cannot "drop" trips. We have to post them for give-away in the hopes that another pilot will pick them up. Give-away trips go first-come, first serve with no regard for seniority or domicile.
For company open-time trips, out-of-domicile pilots are junior to all in-domicile pilots regardless of system seniority.
So the challenge boils down to trying to give away your trips out of the junior base (which few will want unless they are turns or 2-day trips, preferably off the weekends), then trying to find trips available for give-away out of your desired (presumably more senior) domicile, which are harder to come by because the domicile is senior. Our Lance Captains (capt-qualified FOs) live this drama every month between seats (and possibly domiciles, too) as they try to get rid of their FO trips and pick up CA trips where possible.
Now with the increased seasonality of our schedules throughout the year (and the corresponding manning shifts), the balance between ease of giving-way and ease of picking-up is constantly in flux depending upon which season of the year we're in. Plan accordingly....
The other side of this, Lances not withstanding, is that a mid to senior pilot in their seat can bid a weekday line, give it all away in Trip Trade Giveaway (clear their board) and bid premium on daily or hourly open time and make a killing. This comes with the associated stress of not really knowing your schedule, however. There are also guys who can bid a weekday line in one base (Oakland, for instance) and give it away and pick up an entire months flying in TTGA in another base. Since it was subject to seniority in the original bid process, this isn't seen as going around the seniority process.
As smokey mentioned, there is some seasonality, etc that needs to be taken into account, but I have seen guys do both of these things, even in the shoulder months.
The only way you are "stuck" with your bid at SWA is if you are a junior reserve or a junior line holder. Nobody wants weekend trips. In every other situation, your line award is simply a canvas to create your schedule with. Many guys bid a line with zero intention of keeping any of it.
02-27-2015, 07:36 AM
#24
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,588
Originally Posted by Kiwiflygirl
As I already said, just polling other airline practices.
Anyone from UNITED, JETBLUE, AMERICAN that can briefly summarize your system?
Anyone from UNITED, JETBLUE, AMERICAN that can briefly summarize your system?
02-27-2015, 08:14 AM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by Kiwiflygirl
Wow, at 10:39 you did not have access to the contract and now 38 mins later not only do you have access but you are an expert. I am truly impressed cleg.
02-27-2015, 08:25 AM
#27
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by corperalcleg
I didn't say I don't have the contract. I'm still waiting for your answer. Show me the violation of the contract for out of base trip pick ups.
"Never said I was partaking of such practice. But I do know what's going on over there. Since I don't have access to the contract, how about you quote the parts that are being violated over here."
02-27-2015, 09:03 AM
#28
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 784
I do this at Spirit regularly and it's awesome. I asked numerous captains when I was new if this was acceptable or if there was any unwritten rules that would make this practice frowned upon. I live equidistant between two bases and it really helped get through first year pay.
02-28-2015, 05:57 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 99
The section that is being disregarded in the contract fall under group A pilots in section 25.
"Scheduling shall offer the assignment to pilots in category domiciled where the open flying occurs, except those pilots for whom the assignment would violate the CBA, or FAR, or conflict with other scheduled duty."
However this is different if a said pilot picks up a LAS trip but scheduling built it out of FLL with deadheads to cover it.
"Scheduling shall offer the assignment to pilots in category domiciled where the open flying occurs, except those pilots for whom the assignment would violate the CBA, or FAR, or conflict with other scheduled duty."
However this is different if a said pilot picks up a LAS trip but scheduling built it out of FLL with deadheads to cover it.
02-28-2015, 08:14 AM
#30
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
I'd say it's pretty awesome how much scheduling flexibility we have @ Spirit. As a commuter, I've got numerous options when adjusting my schedule to meet the needs of my personal life. First come, first serve.
So hilarious that Kiwi comes on here acting like its a curiosity question, when everyone knows who she is, and how the senior folk in FLL hate that CAs in LAS and DFW are taking their precious trips down in FLL. What would become if the top 30 in FLL weren't able to credit 140 an hour every month, because some junior CA based in LAS, wants to pick up FLL trips to spend more time with their family. The Horror!!!
Kiwi, ask your buddy CA M.R. in FLL why she is picking 4 day trips in DFW if this process is so frowned down upon amongst the senior CAs in FLL
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