Middle East carrier subsidies
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,883
Dude! You have a serious case of "it's everyone else's fault, other than your own" as to why you didn't get hired at the aforementioned legacy airlines in your post.
Delta has hired ~1300 pilots in the previous 15 months. Maybe not all, but a SIGNIFICANT number of those have been far more qualified than you! Since you and presumably the "other's who were just putting food on the table" needed to cross that 'line in the sand' (pun intended), I think the US legacies are NOT hiring them en mass for a reason. There are still BETTER applicants in the 10,000 applicant pool.
We've heard you loud and clear that you'd go to a ME carrier in a heartbeat. "It's hard to bite the hand that feeds you." - mentality. Guess what other pilot group(s) in the '80's had that same self-justification to walk by their brethren standing in a picket line?
Lastly, why is it that there is signficant exodus from American-made pilots at the three ME carriers? Maybe because those that went over in the first place are realizing they 'sold their soul' and didn't realize it until after they spent a few months, year at the most, with those sand-flea, wearing man-dresses.
You're welcome to quit your ULCC at any time if you have such devout loyalties to the ME carriers. Let me know how that goes for you? Personally, I've been over there and unless called upon again, have little to zero desire to go back.
Elliott
Delta has hired ~1300 pilots in the previous 15 months. Maybe not all, but a SIGNIFICANT number of those have been far more qualified than you! Since you and presumably the "other's who were just putting food on the table" needed to cross that 'line in the sand' (pun intended), I think the US legacies are NOT hiring them en mass for a reason. There are still BETTER applicants in the 10,000 applicant pool.
We've heard you loud and clear that you'd go to a ME carrier in a heartbeat. "It's hard to bite the hand that feeds you." - mentality. Guess what other pilot group(s) in the '80's had that same self-justification to walk by their brethren standing in a picket line?
Lastly, why is it that there is signficant exodus from American-made pilots at the three ME carriers? Maybe because those that went over in the first place are realizing they 'sold their soul' and didn't realize it until after they spent a few months, year at the most, with those sand-flea, wearing man-dresses.
You're welcome to quit your ULCC at any time if you have such devout loyalties to the ME carriers. Let me know how that goes for you? Personally, I've been over there and unless called upon again, have little to zero desire to go back.
Elliott
I'm happy where I am and will stick it out.
#12
Thank you. I don't know how anyone making $100k-$200k+ (which is pretty much every legacy pilot in the US) can expect sympathy from those making $20k-$65k flying the same metal around for the same airline system when they want to talk about "subsidies."
My track record when I was at a regional. AA - crickets, US - crickets, DL - crickets, UA - crickets. Qatar - heard back in 6 months and Emirates - heard back in 4 months. For many pilots, it's the same as a legacy airline not existing if they can't even get an interview. It's hard to bite the hand that is actually willing to feed you. Plenty went overseas to those ME carriers because they got called/hired and had bills to pay. If the legacy carriers were really concerned, they could put a hurt on the ME carriers by instantly hiring every single American pilot back. There is a large quantity of American pilots at EK, QR, and EY. Hiring all back in a very short timeframe would put a hurt on the pilot manpower of the ME carriers.
But instead, some vocal legacy pilots here are adamant about putting those American pilots at ME carriers on some sort of "no-hire" list for their "betrayal" of the US industry. With BS talk like that, good luck getting any unity. I will conclude by saying I honestly don't care and I have no problem walking away from a US carrier into a ME carrier if I had to. Good luck in your fight because lets face it, it is just your fight. You made it this way by letting a regional outsource model continue and pushing away expat American pilots instead of wanting them to come back and work here.
My track record when I was at a regional. AA - crickets, US - crickets, DL - crickets, UA - crickets. Qatar - heard back in 6 months and Emirates - heard back in 4 months. For many pilots, it's the same as a legacy airline not existing if they can't even get an interview. It's hard to bite the hand that is actually willing to feed you. Plenty went overseas to those ME carriers because they got called/hired and had bills to pay. If the legacy carriers were really concerned, they could put a hurt on the ME carriers by instantly hiring every single American pilot back. There is a large quantity of American pilots at EK, QR, and EY. Hiring all back in a very short timeframe would put a hurt on the pilot manpower of the ME carriers.
But instead, some vocal legacy pilots here are adamant about putting those American pilots at ME carriers on some sort of "no-hire" list for their "betrayal" of the US industry. With BS talk like that, good luck getting any unity. I will conclude by saying I honestly don't care and I have no problem walking away from a US carrier into a ME carrier if I had to. Good luck in your fight because lets face it, it is just your fight. You made it this way by letting a regional outsource model continue and pushing away expat American pilots instead of wanting them to come back and work here.
#14
1) They felt they were doing what they needed to do at the time. (So did someone crossing the picket lines of a pilot group on strike.) I get it! I don't agree with the justification and/or wouldn't have made the same decision myself, but I get it.
2) Now they've seen, or are seeing the error in their previous ways. Again, I get it. (I've been over there too, IT SUCKS.)
3) What ISN'T the fault of the US Legacy(Airline) industry is the fact that we are subjected to an uneven playing field of competition due to the three ME carriers "DUMPING" seats because of the ridiculous amount they're subsidized.
Dumping (pricing policy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
#18
B
Empty threat. Where are they gonna get WB airplanes to fly if they cancel Boeing and Airbus orders? The Russians or Chinese? Their business plan calls for using WBs. They'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face by canceling orders. It'd be the best thing that could happen.
Here's an interesting statement from the Emirates Airline Chairman:
"We are buying a product from their countries. So why would they not allow us to fly to these airports? If they don't, they can take their planes back," he said.
The rest of the article that comment came from can be read here.
The Emirates Chairman (and most certainly his buds at Qatar and Etihad) is referring to the VERY LARGE aircraft orders he and his pals have on Boeing's and Airbus' books, but of note Boeing. He's basically saying, "Hey, if you don't let us fly to the US or Europe, then you (Airbus and Boeing) can take your aircraft orders back."
.
"We are buying a product from their countries. So why would they not allow us to fly to these airports? If they don't, they can take their planes back," he said.
The rest of the article that comment came from can be read here.
The Emirates Chairman (and most certainly his buds at Qatar and Etihad) is referring to the VERY LARGE aircraft orders he and his pals have on Boeing's and Airbus' books, but of note Boeing. He's basically saying, "Hey, if you don't let us fly to the US or Europe, then you (Airbus and Boeing) can take your aircraft orders back."
.
#19
What about Alaska signing a code share with these guys? JetBlue and Virgin America also have a code share with Emirates. Crickets from ALPA on airlines that employ pilots they represent signing deals with the ME carriers.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
#20
B
Empty threat. Where are they gonna get WB airplanes to fly if they cancel Boeing and Airbus orders? The Russians or Chinese? Their business plan calls for using WBs. They'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face by canceling orders. It'd be the best thing that could happen.
Empty threat. Where are they gonna get WB airplanes to fly if they cancel Boeing and Airbus orders? The Russians or Chinese? Their business plan calls for using WBs. They'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face by canceling orders. It'd be the best thing that could happen.
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