Middle East carrier subsidies
03-08-2015, 09:29 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy
What about Alaska signing a code share with these guys? JetBlue and Virgin America also have a code share with Emirates. Crickets from ALPA on airlines that employ pilots they represent signing deals with the ME carriers.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
03-08-2015, 09:37 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy
What about Alaska signing a code share with these guys? JetBlue and Virgin America also have a code share with Emirates. Crickets from ALPA on airlines that employ pilots they represent signing deals with the ME carriers.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/codes...ers/etihad.jsp
And Qatar joined the Oneworld alliance. ***?
http://www.qatarairways.com/us/en/co...-partners.page
03-08-2015, 09:42 AM
#23
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Posts: 1,568
My guess is this is what will happen. The big 3 US partner up with the big 3 ME. Money is power, and right now they have it. We will get the short end of the stick when it comes to the ratios though. It will be sold as a win, sorta like age 65.
Originally Posted by RockyBoy
What about Alaska signing a code share with these guys? JetBlue and Virgin America also have a code share with Emirates. Crickets from ALPA on airlines that employ pilots they represent signing deals with the ME carriers.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
Maybe the best protection from these guys is to sign a JV and guarantee that 50% of the global flying belongs to U.S. airlines? If AF/KLM/Delta went into a JV with Emirates and negotiated that half the Europe flying was AF/KLM and half the U.S. flying was Delta, maybe we have a chance of saving half the flying? Just an outside the box way of dealing with something that probably won't get put back in the bottle at this point.
03-08-2015, 11:03 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
jetBlue is ALPA and Virgin is about to be soon. What would you expect ALPA to do against pilots for something that their management decides to do that is well outside a pilot CBA?
Last time I checked DALPA had code share limitations in section 1 regarding the Alaska code share. What kind of code share limitations does Alaska have in regards to the Emirates deal? What will JetBlue and VA negotiate in their first ALPA contracts?
With that said, it may be easier to control the growth by being involved in extensive code share's or JV's with the ME carriers.
03-08-2015, 11:05 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Thank you. I don't know how anyone making $100k-$200k+ (which is pretty much every legacy pilot in the US) can expect sympathy from those making $20k-$65k flying the same metal around for the same airline system when they want to talk about "subsidies."
.
.
How about a little personal responsibility?
03-08-2015, 11:53 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Purple Drank
I missed the part where you were forced to work for that pay.
How about a little personal responsibility?
How about a little personal responsibility?
03-08-2015, 11:58 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by RockyBoy
Nothing against pilots, how about the companies they work for? It's not really well outside of a CBA. Scope is section 1 in most CBA's. We all saw how far behind the curve ALPA was on scope in the late 90's and saw a decade lost to outsourcing flying to RJ's. Will ALPA be just as far behind the curve on this issue and allow ALPA represented carriers to code share and sign JV's with ME carriers?
Last time I checked DALPA had code share limitations in section 1 regarding the Alaska code share. What kind of code share limitations does Alaska have in regards to the Emirates deal? What will JetBlue and VA negotiate in their first ALPA contracts?
With that said, it may be easier to control the growth by being involved in extensive code share's or JV's with the ME carriers.
Last time I checked DALPA had code share limitations in section 1 regarding the Alaska code share. What kind of code share limitations does Alaska have in regards to the Emirates deal? What will JetBlue and VA negotiate in their first ALPA contracts?
With that said, it may be easier to control the growth by being involved in extensive code share's or JV's with the ME carriers.
And didn't AA sign a JV with Qatar Airways?
03-08-2015, 12:04 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy
in the US most civilian pilots have work at the regional airlines which have ALPA-sanctioned poverty wages. If Delta/American/United hired pilots at 250-500 hrs then the regional stepping-platform wouldn't exist.
Really? As I recall, which PD alluded to as well, nobody was holding a gun to your head, forcing you to work for those wages. Guess what would happen if the Regional airline industry had ZERO applicants to choose from? Maybe the "regional stepping-platform" WAGES wouldn't exist like they do today!
03-08-2015, 12:10 PM
#29
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Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Elliot
"ALPA-sanctioned? Really?
As I recall, which PD alluded to as well, nobody was holding a gun to your head, forcing you to work for those wages. Guess what would happen if the Regional airline industry had ZERO applicants to choose from? Maybe the "regional stepping-platform" WAGES wouldn't exist like they do today!
Really? As I recall, which PD alluded to as well, nobody was holding a gun to your head, forcing you to work for those wages. Guess what would happen if the Regional airline industry had ZERO applicants to choose from? Maybe the "regional stepping-platform" WAGES wouldn't exist like they do today!
Lets call a spade a spade. It is an outsourced feeder operation flying your Delta logo slapped on RJs flying at one time nearly 50% of your Delta feed with outsourced pilots making less than half what you make. Instead of turning this on the regional pilots, how about "guess what would have happened if legacy pilots stood up for what's right and not allow RJs to be outsourced in the first place in the 90s starting with Comair?" That's the better question. Those jets should be operated at the legacy airline. Delta has a published CRJ-900 payrate. Compare that to every single DCI carrier. See how many CRJ-900s are operated by Delta Air Lines and how many operated by regionals operating as Delta Connection. How about we fix that problem instead of blaming regional pilots for accepting regional wages which they are only doing to try and make it to your carrier?
03-08-2015, 12:12 PM
#30
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Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
I don't know DALPA's contract but I imagine the Alaska codeshare limitation is a result of domestic flying scope. Not many airline pilot contracts can stop their airline from obtaining a codeshare agreement with a foreign airline. Codesharing for LCCs like jetBlue and Virgin helps the LCCs get traffic out to international arenas where they have no service. If someone wants to book on jetBlue or Virgin going to Dubai from Chicago, they cannot. But jetBlue and Virgin's codeshare with Emirates allows that passenger to book a flight from ORD to Dubai via a domestic jetBlue/Virgin leg and then a connection to Emirates. This brings in revenue to jetBlue/Virgin. And lets admit that jetBlue/Virgin are probably never going to Dubai.
And didn't AA sign a JV with Qatar Airways?
And didn't AA sign a JV with Qatar Airways?
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